Transport Committee on Nov. 18th, 2009

[Marco Prud'homme]

Although some airlines do have a legal department, I believe that most carriers in Canada do not have a full-time lawyer or a legal department. So this bill opens up a Pandora's box and we do not really know what impact it would have on small carriers, especially in Quebec, where we do have many concerns and questions about this.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you, Mr. Prud'homme.

Colleagues, we're going to have to leave here at 5:30. In the interest of giving everybody an opportunity, I think in this round, with your consent, I'll limit it to four minutes so I can get in at least two questions instead of the usual five.

Okay? Thank you.

Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, panel members.

My questions are for Mr. Prud'homme.

You say that we should reject this bill outright. Don't you believe that Canadian passengers should have rights when they don't get service from the carriers?

[Marco Prud'homme]

I believe that passengers' rights are already covered in the rates that are tabled with the Canadian Transportation Agency and that if there is a willingness among the public to improve on these conditions, the agency is in a better position to do so. They have already been doing this for many years and the system is working. So, why should we try to reinvent the wheel? In my view, it would be better to reject this bill.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Do you believe and support that these tariffs, or whatever you call them--I would call it the rights of the passengers--should be legislated?

[Marco Prud'homme]

Could you repeat your question, please?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Do you think we should have legislation to cover those passengers under the tariffs you are talking about?

[Marco Prud'homme]

I believe that the rates already include several clauses dealing with delays and the loss of luggage. If there is a new clause to be added on the subject of delays on an access ramp, as was the case in the Air Cubana episode, I do not see what would prevent us from doing so already.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

It could have been done. The way I see the airlines coming in now is that....

Mr. Byrne and Mr. Maloway brought forward their private member's bills and private motions. Then the airlines chipped in to bring in the new tariffs and whatnot. But they have not yet been implemented here. So why don't you suggest what we should do with the bill, what improvements we should make so it is balanced--on one side, the airlines and their rights, and on the other side, the passengers' rights?

[Marco Prud'homme]

My answer to this is that if there was a significant need in this area, the Canadian Transportation Agency would have contacted the carriers and would have made recommendations to us.

I have personally worked for an air carrier for 10 years and I have seen over the years an improvement in the services offered to passengers who have accessibility problems. We have been faced with new standards, new requirements and we have put in place some measures in order to help individuals who have difficulties in this regard. So I fail to see why this tool could not be used in order to solve different problems.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

You have 30 seconds, question and response.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

How many airports in Quebec do you think will be unable to meet the requirements of Bill C-310?

[Marco Prud'homme]

How many airlines or how many airports?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Airlines.

[Marco Prud'homme]

There are not many airlines in Quebec. However, there are many small carriers that serve remote areas. Someone jokingly told me recently that if he was required to comply with a schedule, it would be a daily schedule; in other words, the airplane would take off when ready.

I believe that in Quebec, there are some twenty companies that could not comply with such a bill.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Jean will share his time with Mr. Watson.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Merci beaucoup.

Mr. French, I fly at lot as well. I'm actually the member of Parliament from Fort McMurray. With respect, I think I actually represent more Newfoundlanders than you do--

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

--some 30,000, approximately. That's why I'm so adamant about this bill. I don't agree with this bill. I don't agree with it in its present form and, quite frankly, I don't believe it can be amended appropriately to give it any real clout that won't cause, in essence, more disruption to my Newfoundland constituents than to anybody else in Canada.

I really believe that, and I'll tell you why. First of all, what you've referred to is weather. You referred to being stuck in the airport, and I know it was weather-related. If it was during the holidays, then my research proves that it was weather. The delays were weather. You've talked about weather, and I understand why you'd bring up weather.

You referred to the European bill of rights. Paris and London, two of the busiest airports in Europe, have no snowfall. St. John's is actually the foggiest city in all of Canada; it gets fog 124 days a year. For Halifax it's 122 days. It is the snowiest, at 359 centimetres, next to Quebec City, which also will be greatly affected, at 343 centimetres. It is the wettest, with 1,514 millimetres of precipitation. It is the windiest, with an average speed of 24.3 kilometres per hour, and the cloudiest, with 1,494 hours of sunshine. It has more days of freezing rain and wet weather than any other city.

That is obviously a concern. I've heard from Newfoundlanders how this is a concern, but like Pavlov's dog--if you keep calling the dog and you hit it with a stick when it comes--the airlines are not going to have scheduled flights to these cities if they're continually punished as a result of weather, which seems to be the indication. Even if it's excluded, which I don't believe it can be under the current bill, there are going to be other difficulties.

That's my concern, sir. I have two direct return flights a day right now from St. John's to Fort McMurray, and it's very important to the people in my area because their livelihoods depend on it.

Quite frankly, sir, I believe this bill will shut down those flights and shut down many other flights to small communities, of which I represent about 37 in northern Alberta. I know Newfoundland has many as well. That is my concern.

With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Watson.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

So, Mr. Brian Jean, you've proven yet again that you got first star in sharing.

Mr. French, you're going to have to be very brief. I made an error earlier and I have to give one other colleague an opportunity.

[Woodrow French]

One of the things we're good at in Newfoundland and Labrador comes through the federal government, which years ago put in a good ILS system. That gets the airplanes in and out. We do have snowplows, and the roads and runways are cleared very quickly after a snowstorm.

Your constituents do fly in and out of St. John's, I agree, but some of them are complaining to me and to other people as well. The problem is this: you have weather, and after the weather's gone, you've got sunshine, and you get one Embraer or one 737 coming in and trying to take all these passengers out. It takes a week.

The airlines don't jump in and say they're going to put a Boeing 767 or 777 on to clear up the backlog. They would sit and leave your constituents and my residents in an airport, not knowing where to go, when to go, what to do, or anything like that.

I'm afraid, sir, I can't agree with you that this is going to hurt the airline business in Canada any more than it's already been hurt. What went on was cited in the National Post yesterday, and it's got nothing to do with weather; it's who's got the biggest bucks.

I think if we lose sight of that and we don't look after Canadians, it's wrong. I mean, if it works in Europe, then we're not good enough for it. That's the only thing I can take away from it: that Canadians are not good enough to be protected.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Colleagues, I made an error, as I indicated. I should have gone over to Mr. Jean-Yves Roy initially.

I'm going to do that now.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Don't I have another four minutes? Do I get another one after--

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

You got your share as well, so....

Go ahead, Monsieur Roy.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Prud'homme. You talked earlier about the Magdalen Islands. In fact, in the Magdalen Islands, the airline serving that region was selling more seats than there were in the aircraft, and in the end, passengers regularly had to stay behind at the airport because it was the only means of transportation.

I agree with Mr. Laframboise that the bill does not make sense. However, that is not the issue.

I have been an MP for 10 years and I must tell you that I have given up on the idea of flying from Ottawa to Montreal and then on to Mont-Joli, etc.—the service has practically been eliminated in Mont-Joli—because there was a connecting flight in Montreal or in Quebec City and I was missing it on a regular basis. Personally, I have had a lot of problems dealing with airlines. In my region, in the Magdalen Islands, the transportation system was abysmal. However, we cannot blame the airports or NAV CANADA, but the carriers were responsible for what was happening in the Magdalen Islands. I am not talking about small and medium-sized companies. I understand there is a difference between your association and the companies involved.

Also, I understand your position on the bill, when you say that complaints have to be addressed to the transportation agency. If you ask the people in the Magdalen Islands where and to whom they can complain, they will not answer that they should go to the transportation agency, because they do not have any idea. So they complain first and foremost to the airlines or to the media.

I am looking at your statistics about new complaints. If there was a complaints clerk in the Magdalen Islands, your statistics would triple because people do not know where they can file their complaints. Of course, they will turn to the media, or to their member of Parliament. I am not talking about your members, but about large carriers. Personally, coming from that region, if I had wished to file some complaints, I would have filed perhaps one or two per month. Also, I have a lot of difficulty with your statistics. I am not in favour of the proposed bill and I know that it cannot be amended.