Transport Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I think cities are ready and able to meet your deadline for project completion, in 2011. The problem is the deadline at the beginning, given that they have lost six months....

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I have to speak to my deputy minister or my assistant deputy minister about that. I think we need to make a decision and announce agreements with the provinces on January 29, 2010, but it is not mandatory for the projects to begin by January 29.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

In any case, there is little construction work in the winter in Quebec, but the fact that the announcement....

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You are not required to begin projects by January 29.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I understand that, but for six months, cities were not able to make political decisions because of municipal elections. You seem to think it is easy. But it is not simple in Quebec, when you do not have the necessary funds to create a borrowing by-law. It requires the support of the people. Otherwise, a referendum is needed, and the by-law may not pass. Given those conditions, you can send all the forms you want, but there is no guarantee that the money will be spent.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We announced the stimulus fund back in January of this year.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

But there were municipal elections in Quebec.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

The municipalities still had seven months.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

In other words, you are punishing Quebec's municipalities.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Before the 30-day period leading up to the elections, they had 7 or 8 months to work on it. If they are not ready to make a decision in the next two months and if, as you say, they have to hold a referendum, the stimulus fund may not be suitable. The Building Canada Fund may be more appropriate.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

The fact remains you are punishing municipalities....

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

in that the six-month delay penalized them in relation to other Canadian municipalities.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I disagree. I do not agree with your analysis.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

My analysis is right. Some of Quebec's municipalities are being punished because, for six months, they could not submit projects, simply because the law prohibited them from doing so, Mr. Minister.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Are you saying that these municipalities could not develop infrastructure projects during those six months?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I have to go to Mr. Bevington now. I'm sorry.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I want to add something.

I was willing to speak with you after the meeting with my officials. Our goal really is to ensure that the municipalities in every province, in every region of Quebec, are eligible and able to use this funding to create jobs and improve infrastructure. I was willing to meet with you, as were my officials. We wanted to explain all of this to you and hear your concerns.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for clarifying that.

I have one question on the infrastructure fund. In the spring, your finance minister said that he would take back, through the regular contributions of the gas tax, any municipal projects that didn't match up to the specifications and the timeframe that you had set up with them. Is it still the plan of this government to claw back infrastructure dollars from the gas tax?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No. I think what we said was that we were offering up front, if the municipality requested it, up to 25% or 30% of a project. If you had a $1 million federal contribution to a $3 million project and you needed 30% up front for year one expenses, we would advance that.

If for some reason you cancelled the project or didn't move forward with it, we'd expect the money back. We'd expect the money to be returned for the project you didn't do, and if you refused to do it, we could claw it back. But we have no intention--

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So you can say quite categorically that if communities don't finish their projects by the end date of April 2011, there will be no immediate clawback--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're not looking at.... If they get it 90% done, we would pay a third of 90%. We're not going to--

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So you would claw back some money, then?