Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Crichton  President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada
Larry Lachance  Assistant Vice-President, Operational Support, Operations, Nav Canada

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, and good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, meeting number five, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2). We are studying Nav Canada's airport traffic services.

I'll note to committee members that because of the late votes, we'll be sitting for one hour, and I will give notice of a subcommittee meeting early next week, if that's okay.

Joining us today from Nav Canada is Larry Lachance, the assistant vice-president of operational support in operations; Rudy Kellar, vice-president of operations; and John Crichton, president and chief executive officer at the head office.

Because of time, I'll ask you to make your presentation and then we'll move right into questions.

Welcome.

4:35 p.m.

John Crichton President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of Parliament. Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to speak to the committee regarding Nav Canada's current review of airport traffic services.

Accompanying me, as the chairman indicated, is Rudy Kellar, our vice-president of operations, and Larry Lachance, the assistant vice-president of operations.

Nav Canada is the private non-share capital company that owns and operates the second-largest civil air navigation system in the world. There are some 5,200 Nav Canada employees from coast to coast to coast, providing vital air traffic control, flight information, and other services in support of those who fly in Canadian skies.

As many of you will remember, on November 1, 1996, we purchased the air navigation system from the federal government for $1.5 billion and assumed responsibility for the system's operation. We are completely self-financing and receive no government funding whatsoever.

In the past 12 years aviation has evolved significantly, and we have worked closely with our customers to ensure that the air navigation system has evolved along with it. We have invested more than $1.3 billion in new systems, facilities, and equipment, and in our people, with excellent results. Safety has improved, flight delays are down, our technology is leading edge, and our service charges have evolved at far less than the rate of inflation, and I am proud to say that Nav Canada people are known around the globe as the best in the business.

Still, changes in customer needs and technology are continuous, and we must keep pace. Indeed, change has affected everything at Nav Canada, from how air traffic controllers track aircraft to the management of flight data to the provision of vital weather information and to aircraft approach guidance. And I must say that the continued modernization of the Canadian air navigation system is viewed with admiration wherever I travel around the world. That modernization drive has put Canada on the map as a centre of excellence in its field, as other air navigation systems have begun to buy our technology solutions, developed right here by Nav Canada engineers and air traffic controllers.

As one would expect, traffic volumes have also changed at many airports and will naturally continue to do so over time. We monitor those traffic volumes and regularly assess our services to ensure we are supporting safe and efficient operations in a cost-effective way.

In early December we released a discussion paper to solicit input from employees, customers, and other stakeholders regarding air traffic services required at 46 separate airports. Following a review of the input received and an additional follow-on analysis, we have decided not to propose any changes at 18 of the airports in that original paper.

Last week we announced our intention to initiate aeronautical studies to further examine specific proposals for changes at 26 airports. Generally these proposals involve reducing the hours of operation of two airport control towers and five flight service stations; closing eight flight service stations, to be replaced with remote aerodrome advisory services, which is a similar service provided by another flight service station remotely—two of these flight service stations are collocated with towers, and the towers would remain operational; and finally, removing remote aerodrome advisory service from 11 very low-traffic airports.

Additionally, we are seeking further input regarding service requirements in northwestern Ontario prior to formulating service proposals for Kenora and Thunder Bay airports.

I must emphasize that we have made no decision at this time, other than to initiate aeronautical studies, to examine these proposals further. The aeronautical studies will involve broad consultation, detailed operational analysis, as well as a complete hazard and risk analysis. This process will take several months.

If the conclusion of a study is to recommend that a service change be made, no changes will be implemented until Transport Canada, our safety regulator, has reviewed the completed study and it's in agreement that implementation would not unacceptably increase the risk to aviation safety.

Nav Canada's core mandate, and indeed our only real product, is safety. That will be our unwavering focus as we complete these studies, but service to our customers and the cost effectiveness of our service must also be a factor.

Our flight service specialists and air traffic controllers serve a vital function and enhance the safety of operations when traffic levels are moderate to high. Of course, the key factor is the presence, or absence, of air traffic. It must be said that the value of the air traffic services function is minimal when traffic levels are so low that pilots could have coordinated their respective activities directly on common radio frequencies, as they have done safely for decades at hundreds of airports across the country.

Pilots require certain essential information to operate safely. None of these proposals would remove that information, but they ensure it is provided through other means.

To conclude, before we go to questions, I would like to say how deeply proud l am of Nav Canada's record as a privatized air navigation service and especially of our people at all our facilities across Canada.

Our approach to making changes to level of service is very much in line with this record. That approach is measured, consultative, and we believe very much in tune with the expectations of our customers and with Transport Canada, the safety regulator.

Mr. Chairman, we would be pleased to take the committee's questions. Merci.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you.

Mr. Volpe.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Thank you very much for your presentation, and thank you to the three of you for coming to share some of your views with us.

Forgive me, but as a member who represents one of the biggest airports in North America, when I read that flight delays are down, I thought it was nice for three serious men to come in and introduce an element of humour. It's not my experience at Pearson, but at any rate I'm taking your word for it. I didn't see you smile or chuckle. It was just a humorous intervention, but it does raise an issue for us.

What you've also said in that same phrase is that your service charges have evolved at a rate far less than the rate of inflation. Typically that happens when you introduce efficiencies by reducing personnel, improving technology, or just providing less service. Which of those three is the underlying one for such a low rate of increase?

4:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

The primary source of our efficiencies has been, first of all, a restructuring of the business after we took over from the government 12 years ago, which mostly revolved around the administrative portion of the business. To give you an order of the magnitude of that, at the time we took over on November 1, 1996, there were 6,300 employees transferred from the government to us, and approximately two years later, after the administrative restructuring, there were 5,300. None of that affected the operation. None of it was related to operational service delivery.

The major efficiency source for our company, and indeed for people in our business, in fact, is productivity through technology. There has been very little head-count change—if I could put it that way—from levels of service. Levels of service--while they may go down in one area, they have to go up in another. When we took over the system, it was chronically short of air traffic controllers. The staffing rate when we took over was only 85% of requirements. We have now brought that up to over 100%. So we in fact added 200 to 300 air traffic controllers to our population of employees. That's included in those numbers. It has really been through good business management and not related to the levels of service. If anything, our levels of service overall have gone up.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

“Overall” is the key word, but in your review you're actually looking at cutting back service in several airports, are you not?

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I guess you've probably encountered some push-back on that, even though you might make your argument that you're not really putting anything at risk from a security and safety point of view. But you are putting economic livelihood at some risk at some of those airports and the communities they serve, are you not?

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

We don't believe so. It has not been our experience that the use of an airport is in any way related to the services we provide at it. Rather, what attracts airlines, if you will to, fly to a particular point is a market that's completely unrelated to the level of air traffic services we provide. We have never found any connection to that. It is not a “build it and they will come” situation. We react to traffic volumes, which is the key determinant of the safety issue, and we will provide service in accordance with the volumes that are there. Our service does not drive economic development nor does it influence airlines' decisions on where they fly.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

When you cut back on some of your service you need the support or the approval of Transport Canada before you do that, do you not?

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

Yes, that's correct.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Presumably part of their mandate would be to ensure that nothing undermines the safety of any of the flights in and/or out of that airport. But when you cut back on some service, you essentially would require, by implication, that the carrier, the airline or whoever operates a plane or a helicopter out of a particular airport, would probably have to restructure the flight times at the very least.

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

No. I guess the simplest analogy to use is the difference between an airport control service where there's a tower and an airport advisory service, which is either a flight service station on site or a remote advisory service. It would be similar to an intersection that has traffic lights and one that simply has stop signs--the traffic lights being the control service where there is no discretion for drivers, if it's red you come to a stop and so on, and an intersection where there are traffic signs where it's left to the discretion of the drivers to know when to proceed through an intersection. That's the case throughout the world. It has worked extremely well in aviation. In essence it is a volume-driven decision one would make as to when you need to go from one service to another, as I'm sure it is in road traffic.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

You have an airport like Buttonville in Toronto, which is one of the busiest in the country in terms of volume and in terms of obviously the number of planes that use that airport, and you're contemplating cutting back services to Buttonville. It's in the middle of a very quickly growing part of the GTA. Do you not envisage difficulties or challenges to safety as a result?

4:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

Originally there was a review of Buttonville. There was no proposal to change the service. We have announced we're not going to make any changes there. If there had been a proposal for change it probably would have been something related to the hours of operation of the tower, which is a pretty minor change. But we are not proposing any changes there.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Monsieur Lemay.

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I will take this a bit further than Mr. Volpe did. I am the federal member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue.

You are on the verge of "killing off " our two airports. I am speaking to Mr. Killer, who wears his name well. We will not accept that. You are destroying what we built over 20 years in Rouyn-Noranda and Val D'Or. Do you want me to show you the map? There's nothing left in the north. Rouyn-Noranda and Val D'Or are the gateways to the north. You are using YUL numbers and you are saying that Rouyn-Noranda and Val D'Or have fewer movements in total, so there has to be a pullback.

I want to understand something. When Air Canada Jazz cancels two flights a day into our region, when in fact they should be maintained, does that affect your decisions? I'd like a brief answer.

4:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

It would depend. Two flights a day probably wouldn't influence our decisions.

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

The reason there are private companies which service the north is because there is a lot of mining exploration and extraction, whether it's by Xstrata or other companies in the north. They absolutely need those two airports, Rouyn-Noranda and Val D'Or. Does that influence your decision at all?

4:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

I think the simplest way to explain the issue is.... I'm looking at the traffic page for Rouyn-Noranda right now, and over the past three years the average highest amount of traffic per hour at that airport has been four movements. For most hours of the day it is less than two movements per hour. That's on the basis of the last three years of traffic.

When we are assessing airport traffic services, we are certainly guided to a great degree by the actual volume of traffic at the airports in question. That will drive the service decision as to what is required.

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

We have just received a letter about that. It is fairly strange that you are telling us there are two movements per hour. Your calculations are based on a period of 24 hours, whereas the airport is not open 24 hours a day. But it must provide the service 24 hours day. You are on the point of undertaking a study.

So will we be consulted with regard to the study you will undertake in our riding?

4:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

Oh, absolutely. You'll be consulted. There will be extensive consultations with any and all interested parties. There will be a specific safety study done using the Canadian Standards Association's methodologies. There will be a hazard and risk analysis. All of this needs to satisfy the independent safety regulator, Transport Canada, before we would proceed.

This is the beginning of a consultative process. It's far from the end.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

When your letter was made public, the media in our area jumped on it and reported that our airports would close. We are currently negotiating with airlines to provide service between, for instance, Sherbrooke, Rouyn-Noranda and Toronto, or between Gatineau, Rouyn-Noranda and Toronto. But the negotiations abruptly ended yesterday.

That's what interests me. Why wasn't there a press release to inform our local media that this only represented the beginning of a review? Based on what you're saying, no decision has been taken, Mr. Crichton. No decision has been taken.

Is that what you're saying?

4:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Nav Canada

John Crichton

Certainly as far as I know, all our public statements with respect to this process have made the essential elements of the process abundantly clear. And it's far from a fait accompli.

My experience with the media around the country is that there are varying levels of interpretations that get put on things. It's all there for anyone to see. It's on our website. It's in our communications. I don't know where people get the idea to go along with what you just told me. But if there are specific media outlets in the Abitibi that you want us to talk to, we'll be happy to do so.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

When you begin the process—because you're saying that you are at the start of a process—will that happen in our area? Are you going to visit us, you and your team, so we can show you what a regional airport looks like?