Transport Committee on May 6th, 2010

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

First of all, I would like to extend my sincere thanks to you, Ms. Logan and Mr. Mackenzie, for agreeing to appear before the Committee. Your brief is quite explicit and I believe that, given your responsibilities for security, Ms. Logan—you are the Director of Security Systems and Regulatory—you are especially qualified to be making these recommendations.

I must say that, personally, I have had questions and doubts in my own mind for some years now with respect to the way CATSA operates—first of all, because it deals with private subcontractors. I see that you addressed this in your brief. I have doubts about this because, in the specifications I was able to review, nowhere does it say that the private company should be prepared for all eventualities, including all kinds of unexpected events.

In fact, we realized in December that we did not have the necessary staff to meet the requirements issued by the United States. We were told point blank that they had to ask for help from the police, the RCMP and other police forces. The fact is that they did not have enough staff to get the job done. So, that is a concern, and it means that every time there is a threat, whatever may happen, we will again be facing huge lineups. And while that is happening, the airline industry gets a bad reputation.

As I understand it, what you are asking for is to be directly involved. I guess you would like to be consulted? Please explain what exactly you are looking for.

[Laura Logan]

We would very much like to be partners in the process, because in the airline security business, there are lots of stakeholders: Transport Canada, CATSA, which is responsible for security screening, air carriers, airports, and several different police forces. Depending on the airport, it could be a municipal or provincial police force or the RCMP which is responsible for surveillance. There are also customs officers, as well as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. So, there are many different stakeholders. We need to work in partnership in order to ensure an optimal response to any situation that may arise. Rather than one group being on the sidelines, and there being a single response, we would like to be consulted. It is possible that air carriers could do a little more in terms of the way they prepare or process passengers, in order to shorten waiting lines. And Transport Canada may want to change the regulations that CATSA is required to follow, in order to minimize requirements.

As for the events of December 25, all of Transport Canada's requirements were a direct result of regulations issued by the TSA in the United States. Therefore, Transport Canada really did not have much flexibility. At the same time, we were in almost daily contact with the TSA immediately following the event, to explain to authorities that their decisions had practically halted transborder flights with Canada. The fact is that they were almost all suspended, which was unacceptable.

Some air carriers from Europe, Asia and South America were also affected and complained. However, Canada was affected more than the other countries by the new measures implemented following the events of December 25.

We worked with the TSA and were able to find ways of achieving an equivalent level of security and screening, but with fewer problems. That is why, starting on January 20, we were able to change our procedures so that it would no longer be necessary to search 100% of passengers. We had found other approaches.

The work continued and by April 8, there had been further improvements in terms of requirements and the way they had been set by TSA and Transport Canada—again, to improve things even more.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

In fact, it was you, the airlines, who applied pressure.

[Laura Logan]

We were very much involved. We were in contact with these people practically every day.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You should have been included in the process right from the beginning.

[Laura Logan]

Yes. In terms of procedures, we all have our own perspective and expertise. When decisions are made without our having been consulted, we often have the sense that we could have improved the process.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Don't be afraid to say there are too many levels. Personally, I find that there are too many where security is concerned. You have made some interesting suggestions. For one thing, you have pointed out that Canada's airlines are paying the entire cost. And you gave us the example of the United States, where 63% of the cost is defrayed by the government. You also talked about ground rent, but there it is the airport authorities that benefit. For years now, they have been asking for the option of making investments elsewhere than in security. There is always a stakeholder who wants money to do something other than what should be done, which is ensure passenger safety. This has become a major problem. Experts have told us that using body scanners takes 45 seconds per passenger. If there are 400 passengers, we are talking about five hours. It has to be quicker than that.

[Laura Logan]

That's the reason why we want to identify passengers who present less of a risk. That way, fewer passengers will have to be checked using a body scanner. That could be reserved for people who really require that level of screening. Triaging passengers would enable us to carry out an appropriate search based on the level of risk associated with each passenger. We believe that would be a much more effective approach.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for your presentation. We've had quite a number of them, different people talking about different security systems.

I note that you're familiar with the Israeli system; you've had direct contact with them. They have a “trusted traveller” card. They're saying that 50% of their travellers are registered with that card, and I think that's something that we don't see with the NEXUS system. What percentage of travellers right now would have NEXUS cards?

[Laura Logan]

They just announced that they had gotten to, I think, 400,000 registrations. So out of 33 million Canadians, it's still a very small percentage.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

But of the travelling public on your airlines, it would probably be in the neighbourhood of...4%?

[Laura Logan]

It would be a single-digit percentage.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Yes.

Are you familiar with how the Israelis do their trusted traveller card?

[Laura Logan]

I'm not familiar with the specifics.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, we had some witnesses saying that it was a very straightforward, machine-driven process that turned these cards out quite easily. I wonder what the NEXUS procedure is like.

Are you familiar with the NEXUS procedure?

[Laura Logan]

Yes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Is it difficult?

[Laura Logan]

Yes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So the 400,000 people have to invest a good deal of time and effort to get a NEXUS card?

[Laura Logan]

Yes, there's quite a series of forms that you have to complete, as well as submitting your passport and a lot of personal information that is then reviewed by CBSA. Then you get called in, you pass an interview with a CBSA agent, and after paying a fairly significant enrolment fee, you get your card.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So this is a typical Canadian system, then; we've established that the Canadian system is over-bureaucratized.