Transport Committee on May 6th, 2010

[Laura Logan]

No. What I was saying is that I don't think it is appropriate for private companies to be collecting that type of personal information, making those assessments. We would encourage that this type of program be run by the government, but developed in such a way that it could be leveraged to provide benefits to the passengers in an easy way.

With the NEXUS program, if we were to be getting your NEXUS number ahead of time so that we could indicate on the boarding pass that you're a NEXUS card holder, and you could be streamed earlier in the process that way, it's a possibility that we could look at. But we would have to have consistent ways of getting those numbers in consistent formats throughout the various programs that are involved.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

But you would have to keep that information up to date. Even being a member of the “super elite” part of Aeroplan, when I go to one of your lounges, although you mention on the bottom that I'm a super elite member, even your own employees look for that card. So what use is it to put that there? How would you be able to say that the information you carry is up to date?

[Laura Logan]

I'm not exactly sure what they're doing with the lounges in that regard, but I think they want the number because they want to try to track which passengers are using it more, in order to be able to better tailor the products.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

You mentioned that you don't share information with other countries or other agencies. But now the U.S. is asking for information when a flight will be travelling over the U.S. and the airline will have to provide that information to U.S. authorities.

Is that true, and if it is, do you have any concerns about it?

[Laura Logan]

Yes, it is true. There are APIS programs--advanced passenger information systems--in place with a number of countries, where we have to provide specific data elements about the passengers. Canada has APIS, so we have to transmit the APIS information at the time of departure of the flight. That information is typically your name, date of birth, gender, and passport information.

The requirements are spelled out in law, and each country that has an APIS requirement has to put in their legislation the requirement for carriers to do this. There are very strict controls about how it's done and where it's done.

You asked whether we share Aeroplan information or anything that is provided under that guise. No, we absolutely do not. We make public disclosures when the APIS information has to be disclosed. We tell you that it is collected for government and customs purposes.

The overflight provision for secure flight is on the books within the U.S., but it is not in place at this point. We have been in discussion with various government departments within Canada to make sure that the Canadian public is made aware of the requirements when and if this is actually enacted, so that the Canadian public is aware that it is happening.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

We talked about security-related costs earlier, but the $28 charge is on top of the airport improvement fee, is it not? That's quite a lot of money.

[Laura Logan]

A number of charges are added to the cost of the ticket, including taxes, but the airport improvement fee is set by each individual airport. They vary enormously. Some airports do not impose a fee. However, at other airports, the fees are very high. And the security charge is added on to that.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I am from Mirabel. As you know, there is a saga underway involving Mirabel and Dorval, but the fact remains that the Plattsburgh airport is quickly becoming the biggest competitor, because the charges--

[Laura Logan]

-- are much lower.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You can see that with respect to security. The charge is $5, as opposed to $28. There probably are no airport improvement fees, are there?

[Laura Logan]

No, you're right. Also, the lineups are shorter. After December 25, we saw a lot of passengers going to the United States, crossing the border by car and taking a plane from there. Particularly for flights between New Brunswick and Maine, Quebec and Vermont or New York, Ontario and Michigan or New York, Vancouver and Seattle. That was happening across the country. We noticed lower traffic volumes.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

One of the reasons is that we take time to adjust. You were saying earlier that you were not involved in the discussions. It costs passengers less to go to our neighbour's country. Also, they already have security measures in place. So there is less waiting time. And, even though you have to go further away, you probably end up saving time. That is the reality. That is why we have to take a good look at the entire system, right?

[Laura Logan]

Yes.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to the sacred cow discussion. There was some interesting evidence that was presented by an Israeli security fellow about the fact that Israel flies, of course, directly to the United States, but in Israel they don't uphold any liquids requirement. Yet they have access to the U.S. market.

What's holding us up from getting off this liquids issue?

[Laura Logan]

The liquids issue is one that is truly a global approach to a problem. What happens with the Israelis who fly into the U.S. is that they must fly into an international terminal, where they will then go through the customs proceedings. If they want to make a connecting flight, they will then have to pass through re-screening. If the passengers have the liquids, they will have them confiscated at that point.

What makes it so important for Canada to be completely aligned with the U.S. requirements is that we have the pre-clearance arrangements, whereby you clear American customs in Canada and then arrive as a domestic flight in the U.S. If you're making a connection to another flight within the United States, there are no customs formalities, and there's no additional screening.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

The Israelis, who have the gold standard system, do not consider liquids to be a hazard on an aircraft.

[Laura Logan]

No, because they're doing the screening for “bad people” as opposed to the “bad things” approach. They're going through the profiling; they are going through studying the intent of the passenger before they travel.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Could it be that they use sniffers as well, trying to locate explosives rather than hard metal objects, which they control through the double-locked cockpit doors? They have a system of preventing metal objects from being used on a plane for bad purposes, which means they're really only concerned with explosives?

[Laura Logan]

They're concerned with explosives and people with negative intent.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

That's right. Would you agree that their approach is pretty practical and sensible?

[Laura Logan]

It appears to be, in their environment. I think it would be appropriate for us to study it more and see what lessons we can learn from there and bring into the Canadian environment that are appropriate for us.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Now, when you subcontract security, you're subcontracting....

I saw the presentation yesterday from the $16-billion-a-year company--L-3, I think it was--that deals with a lot of the security. The expanding business model of corporations says that you have to keep expanding your business. If you're in security and you have a limited number of airports to deal with, how do you expand your business? Is it through--