Transport Committee on March 11th, 2010

[Trevor Lehouillier]

I'll answer those two things.

Since 2006, issues relating to the accelerator pedal, floor mats, engine driveability--this could be a situation where the operator says, “I was sitting at a light and all of a sudden my engine RPM jumped up 500 RPMs,” or something along those lines. From January 1, 2006, to August of 2009—I'm using that as a cut-off date—we only had 17 complaints. That's all Toyotas; that's all issues.

With respect to floor mats, do keep in consideration that there is a difference between Canada and the United States. The floor mats that are subject to the U.S. recall are different in Canada, and in Canada the floor mats are not being replaced.

There was one particular model—the Venza—that had an issue with floor mats. We had two complaints with the Venza. We brought that issue to Toyota Canada, which was in the timeframe of the recall. Originally, they were recalled in Canada only. There was not a recall in the United States. Since that time and over the last number of months they have expanded that to the United States. We were a leader with the Venza. The Venza was not even subject to a U.S. recall; however, because of the fact that we brought the two complaints to Toyota, they took corrective action with the Venza.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

If I understood correctly, you are saying that there were only 2 floor mat complaints, but there were 17 complaints about the accelerator and other issues. Is that right?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

The two complaints are specific to the Venza model prior to the recall. They would be included in the 17.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

What are the 17 complaints? Are they all related to the accelerator, or are there 15 about the accelerator?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

That would pertain to anything to do with sticky accelerator pedals, vehicle runaways, sudden accelerations, floor mats, engine driveability types of issues.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I find the number 17 too high. Could you tell me how many complaints you must receive before you react and make the company do something?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

Do keep in consideration that when I say 17 complaints, that covers every model of Toyota for six model years, as well as those problems...a number of problems are identified. There are not 17 of the same thing.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

For example, how many accelerator complaints have you received?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

We have not had any cases of a sticky pedal. We have not been able to confirm any cases of a sticky accelerator pedal.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

So there have been none in Canada. But when you decide to conduct an investigation, is there a minimum number of complaints..., or does that depend on the severity of the accident? What prompts you to require the company to issue a recall? What is your strategy?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

There are a number of things that we look at with respect to holding the level of investigation—safety implication, age of vehicle, warning to the operator, if there is a warning, and also physical evidence. We do go out and look at these vehicles. So often we may have something where an operator indicates that the vehicle took off by itself, but physical evidence could suggest, and shows and supports, that at times there are driver errors. They're unfortunate errors, but they do take place, and even sudden acceleration reports from the past many years have shown that driver error is something you cannot overlook.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Did Transport Canada require Toyota to issue these three recalls or is it only the company who did the job?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

In our meetings with Toyota, they had proposed ideas, and when we looked at those ideas, we felt that further action needed to be taken in Canada originally, and very promptly Toyota changed their direction and decided to do a campaign in Canada. That's more specifically with the floor mats. With respect to the floor mats, because the floor mats are different, the issue should not occur with the Canadian vehicles; however, there were two other modifications that Toyota in the United States was performing: modifying the pedal and the floor carpet area. We highly suggested to Toyota that action needed to be taken in Canada to make certain that the Canadian citizen gets the same action as the United States, and Toyota took those actions from that meeting.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Did Toyota make the suggestions to you? Was it not Transport Canada who made them first?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

No, it was Transport Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming here today.

In terms of a general statement of the auto companies in Canada, would they, generally speaking, talk about harmonization with the United States and having similar regulations? Would that be the normal course of discussion between the auto makers and yourselves at Transport Canada when it comes to issues related to product development and movement into the market?

[Gerard McDonald]

Certainly we do discuss with manufacturers in Canada. We do make efforts to harmonize as much as possible standards between Canada and the United States. However, there are some differences that we have instituted specifically for safety purposes. Vehicle running lights is one that comes to mind.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes. So on adding safety measures and that.... Because that's what I hear from various automakers all the time: they want Transport Canada to move towards that regulation.

I'm a little perplexed in terms of how we got here and the department and the relationship with Toyota. How would you describe your relationship with Toyota in general?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

With the automotive industry in general, we have a very good working relationship. We do need to deal with these people very frequently, whether it be Toyota or other manufacturers. However, we are still the enforcement agent.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's what really interests me. Back in November of last year, on the original recall that happened in the United States, they issued every Toyota customer in the United States a letter about their recall. They mailed that to them. In fact, I actually have people in my riding who are living in California who got a recall notice, whereas in Canada they didn't.

I wrote Toyota about that and the recall process that was taking place. They sent me back a letter about what they were doing in terms of Canada. They also included with that a Department of Transport news release on November 26, entitled “Transport Canada applauds Toyota's action to protect consumers”.

I would like to know from you, on that original release that came back on November 26 with the vehicles announced there, have additional vehicles been added to this list of recalls, which you applauded them for at that point in time? Also, have some of those vehicles had further recall requirements that you applauded them from...? This is your document.

By the way, I'd also like to know this specifically: did the Minister of Transport forward you my letter and the response from Toyota as copied on December 1?

[Louis-Philippe Lussier, Chief, Defect Investigations and Recalls Branch, Department of Transport]

There are many questions there.

First of all, to address the question about one of the people in your riding, a Canadian citizen in your riding who received a letter from Toyota in the U.S.--

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

No, she didn't. Her daughter living in California did about her recall issue, but she, living in Canada, didn't get that.

[Louis-Philippe Lussier]

I thought that maybe the vehicle was purchased in the U.S. and then the person moved to Canada or there was some issue like that. Sorry about that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

No. Thank you.