Evidence of meeting #20 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
You spoke earlier about humidity being a problem in some areas. Would you be able to take into consideration the different geographical areas you're dealing with and would you be able to share that information back and forth?
9:35 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
Yes. Again, that's one of the reasons for putting in that role of the chief quality officer on a regional basis. It's to make sure that those things that are characteristic or perhaps unique to a given region are being addressed.
As I explained at our last appearance, it's also why we put an engineering team on the ground in Canada during the winter months: precisely to look at those conditions that are unique to the Canadian marketplace. Arizona doesn't give me meaningful data against a Canadian driving situation in December. We need to have people close to the scene to be able to understand what's happening.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to pick up where I left off, Mr. Beatty. I'm a little disturbed by some of the things you've said to my other colleagues as we've been going along, because it strikes me that you have been making some qualitative decisions, as you've been going along, about the material that's come to you.
You've made a decision about whether some things are routine or maintenance issues, and you knew what was going on. In fact, when I spoke to you a moment or two ago, I asked you, when those reports regarding the sticky pedals and the composition of the products that went to PPS, did you advise Transport Canada? You didn't get a chance to answer, so I'm going to ask you again. Did you advise Transport Canada of the notice of defect?
9:40 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
Just to be clear, are we talking about the Tundra pedal?
9:40 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
Right. No, not at that time. We included it in our January 21 recall in order to ensure that anyone who was experiencing a condition that they might feel was related to the sticky pedal was covered by the same campaign.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Yes, I appreciate that. You put that in your letter--again, the letter of February 19--and it strikes me that you're trying to cover your tracks. Because on January 21, you issued that notice of defect to Transport Canada dealing with the pedals, both the PA46 and PPS materials. Oddly—and this is what is disturbing—in committee testimony on March 16, you stated, and I quote you, “Our first case of a sticky pedal was in late October”. That was 2009. You said, “At the time we didn't know what it was”.
You can imagine.... I would be shocked that you would say that you “didn't know what it was”. So for three years, according to your letter, Toyota is dealing with this issue and you “didn't know what it was”, but you also indicated in the testimony that it was your responsibility—yours—to issue a recall notice the moment you became aware of a defect.
Now, Mr. Beatty, I don't understand. It would have taken you three years when at the beginning of my questioning I asked you whether you were aware of section 10 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, which holds the “company that manufactures, sells or imports any vehicle” and so on, responsible...? Why would it have taken you three years?
9:40 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
Mr. Chairman, if we can back up the chronology for a moment, I think there are two issues here. One is the question of how safety determinations are made and on what basis. The other is with respect to the knowledge of Toyota Canada with respect to issues affecting vehicles in the Canadian marketplace.
In respect to the first issue, there is a specific process that is followed with respect to the determination of those issues, and ultimately it comes to a conclusion as to whether or not the safety defect exists. At that moment, I have absolutely the obligation to ensure that we take action if that determination has been made.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
No, really, with respect, Mr. Beatty, it talks about when you become aware, when the company becomes aware.
So there are two issues, to put that back to you. It's, one, whether you're complying with the guidelines and the act as per Transport Canada's observance of the act, so it's a question of leadership, whether Transport Canada's or yours; or it's the other, which is whether Toyota, essentially, the one that's responsible for the engineering and the design, is giving you the information about the vehicles you're selling on the North American market.
That's what it's about and you're telling me no on both accounts, that, you know, you became aware of it on January 20 because January 21 is when you issued the recall.
9:40 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
That's right, because that's the time when a determination was made that the safety defect existed.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
That's a little too legalistic: “a determination was made”. The act says when you become “aware”--
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
9:40 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
No, you become aware of it as a result of a process of scientific investigation into the issue and the determination that this condition exists and should be dealt with.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
With all due respect, you referred to Arizona, and Arizona's conditions are a lot better than the ones that you act for here. If there was a problem in Arizona, you should have expected a problem here in Canada.
You're asking this committee to think that climatic conditions in Canada are better than the ones in Arizona, and therefore you are going to make a determination--the word “determination”--about whether there is a safety defect that is contingent upon your scientific study, when your head office is already conducting such engineering studies worldwide...?
9:45 a.m.
Managing Director, Toyota Canada Inc.
I'm sorry, but you've lost me completely on that.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I was afraid I would. And you lost me a little while ago when you were talking about becoming aware.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome, gentlemen. I am making an unusual appearance at the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, because this is such an interesting subject.
Mr. Chairman, it was mentioned earlier that an official from the Department of Transport was available to answer our questions. Could we ask him to testify?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Mr. McDonald?
Gerard McDonald is the associate assistant deputy minister of safety and security. He's been with us before.
Monsieur Carrier has--
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Mr. McDonald, I have a few questions. Since the beginning of the incidents at Toyota, have you obtained additional information that answers the questions you surely had? Did you get full cooperation and sufficient information from the company?
9:45 a.m.
Gerard McDonald Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, since this information came to light, we have had numerous meetings with Toyota. Obviously we've been following all deliberations quite closely, both here and in the U.S., and as a result of certain statements made by NHTSA, by Toyota in the U.S., and by Toyota here, we have asked both Toyota Canada and Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada for additional data and information on what they knew and when.
I'm pleased to say that both entities have been quite cooperative with us. We have received over 9,000 pages of documentation from these two companies, which we have, for the most part, analyzed and reviewed. At this point, that is essentially where we're at.