Transport Committee on March 16th, 2010

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming here today.

First of all, this is obviously a very serious issue and it's something we have to take very seriously as legislators. But when was the first worldwide complaint made on sudden unintended acceleration with this kind of pedal technology, the first complaint in the United States, Japan, and elsewhere in the world, in relation to this kind of technology, the sticky gas pedal?

[Stephen Beatty]

I want to be clear about that, because it doesn't give rise to sudden unintended acceleration. The first cases that were technologically related to this recall arose in Europe on right-hand-drive vehicles.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

When was it?

[Stephen Beatty]

It was about a year ago.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Was it in 2009, at the beginning of the year?

[Stephen Beatty]

The timeframe is about right. I'd have to refresh my memory on the specific details.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Would you be able to provide that to the chair, please?

[Stephen Beatty]

Sure.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

How many complaints were in relation to this technology at that time?

[Stephen Beatty]

Again, I can refresh my memory and provide that information to the—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

To the clerk, please. That's great.

There was an article put out by CTS on January 29, 2010, from its head office in, I think, Elkhart, Indiana. I'd like to read part of that article, because they comment on the accelerator pedal.

CTS stated that since the problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999 when CTS did not even make this product for any customer, CTS believes that the rare slow return pedal phenomenon, which may occur in extreme environmental conditions, should absolutely not be linked with any sudden unintended acceleration incidents.

Since that time, is it now indicated that CTS is actually involved in these sticky pedals, or is the sudden unintended acceleration a different issue from the sticky pedal issue?

[Stephen Beatty]

As I've been trying to say, sudden unintended acceleration is a different condition from that sticky pedal. A sticky pedal is one that is slow to return to idle. Again going back to 1999, cars of that vintage would have had mechanical throttle assemblies, which were subject to seizing. Again, it's just general technology.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Beatty, I'm sorry, I have a limited amount of time.

I have two things. The first is, why did you wait so long to notify Toyota owners? That is my question. Four months is far too long, especially when you knew about it. I think there's no question that Toyota waited too long to inform them, based upon your network in the United States and elsewhere around the world. Certainly I would like a real answer to that question.

Secondly, in your recommendations themselves, you indicate four particular recommendations, none of which really deals with the issue of the sticky gas pedal. You're trying, in my mind, to cast blame on Transport Canada for the resources, concerning which they indicate clearly that they have enough resources. That's an issue of perception about which you speak of an “additional level of confidence“, so that Canadians can have more confidence, more perception of safety.

This is about reality and about people's lives on a daily basis using your products, which aren't safe. I'd like to know why it took so long to notify owners—and the regulator, in this case—that there was an issue of safety, when clearly all of us around this table recognize that there is an issue of safety that has been there for some time on this technology. Why?

[Stephen Beatty]

To the contrary, Mr. Chairman, I would say that Toyota moves faster in Canada to deal with recall issues in general than—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Four months is not—

[Stephen Beatty]

—than other members of the industry, and you might want to expand your investigation to look at the recall history and practices of other companies so that you can benchmark our performance.

But as I said before, from the standpoint of not only the triggering of the investigation but the subsequent repair and remedy of vehicles, we have moved very rapidly. If the issue specific to this relates to saying that even at the very early stages, before we understand whether we have a problem, there should be a dialogue with Transport Canada, as I've already said to Monsieur Laframboise, we're happy to entertain some improvement in the way such communication takes place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Volpe, you have two minutes.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Chair, we've just been given a bit of a demonstration of somebody passing the buck. I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the responses given by Mr. Beatty and by the questions addressed by the government side. So the government has now decided that Toyota is actually the problem.

In fact, when I read the recall letter, which is not a recall letter, because it doesn't have the word “recall”—it's called the “voluntary safety improvement campaign”—it talks about “when the improvement becomes available”, and by the way, it's not available yet, and it says we don't know what's wrong with the vehicles, but when we find out we'll call you. That's the letter.

Mr. Beatty says: the government never asked us for any information, so we're not obliged to give it. And the government says: you guys are at fault; you should have given us information, because we needed it in order to provide safety and security.

My head is now spinning, because I'm looking at this recall letter, and it says the problem with the sticky pedal is not due to a vehicle defect. Yet I asked Mr. Inaba and Mr. Tomihara, and in fact all of them, is there is a corporate definition for safety-related defects? Clearly there must be, but they haven't given me an answer. And the government hasn't asked for an answer. It hasn't asked for information, Toyota hasn't felt obliged to give information, and here we are today still talking about vehicles that the government side says are unsafe to be on the road. But they're not the engineers. Mr. Beatty's not an engineer.

Mr. Chair, what's clear from this is that Toyota would like us to amend the Motor Vehicle Safety Act to prescribe that the government ask for specific information on a worldwide basis, because all those class action suits are taking place on vehicles that Mr. Inaba and Mr. Beatty and others have said are actually engineered in Japan. They've said that they are centrally engineered and designed, and that there is very marginal difference between the vehicle that's designed and engineered centrally and the one that's put on the roads in Canada.

So all the facts point to somebody trying to shift the blame. I think the government hasn't taken its full responsibility for what Toyota is doing in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

We'll hear Mr. Beatty very briefly, please.

[Stephen Beatty]

The vehicle safety improvement campaign refers to floor mats. You'll excuse me if I stand up to show you the U.S. floor mat. It is supplied by Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., and it was the subject of the U.S. recall campaign.

And here is the Canadian mat. It is of a different material, with different construction, a different cutaway from the pedal, and it does not give rise to the same issues.

Going back to the issue of what it was that Transport Canada was congratulating Toyota for here in Canada, it was that we agreed to be governed by the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act in carrying out additional measures here in Canada, even though there was no defect in the vehicle. The issue related to the entrapment of pedals with that U.S. mat.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Having defined the word “defect”, of course everybody can compliment you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Let me say before we close, as the time is running out, that there used to be a perception that Canadians couldn't sell vehicles into the U.S. or vice versa, and usually the blocking position was safety-related. Are we at a point in history now where the safety regulations for Canada are the same as those in the United States or vice versa? Or are we still selling into each other's markets vehicles that don't meet all the standards?

[Stephen Beatty]

There are still incompatible standards. For example, I could not necessarily sell in Canada a vehicle that was built for the United States, in some cases because of immobilizer standards and so forth. But in general, Transport Canada is aligning with U.S. standards, and that will make it easier to move vehicles back and forth.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Are consumers being told that, if they're buying a product in the United States?

[Stephen Beatty]

I don't know. Typically consumers are being asked to report to the registrar of imported vehicles in order to get that information.