Transport Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2010

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, I hope my comments will strike a chord with my colleague to the left.

Gatineau Park is first and foremost a place we want to preserve, from an ecological standpoint. We do not want the park exploited in any way that would remove its natural integrity.

The amendment says “one of its priorities”. But it is not a priority, but the priority; it is the most essential priority, it is set in stone. That is why we cannot support this amendment.

I, myself, heard Mr. Dewar present briefs to the committee that had been set up. Mr. Paquette, if I remember correctly, led the public consultation process requested by the transport minister at the time, Mr. Cannon. That is the underlying principle of Gatineau Park. You need to understand that saying “one of its priorities” makes no sense. It has to be “the priority”.

That is why we are against this amendment, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci.

Go ahead, Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm somewhat surprised by amendment G-6. We're talking of “maintenance”, and that's fine, but we're also talking of “restoration of the ecological integrity”. When we had witnesses here from the National Capital Commission, one of their apprehensions, if I may call it that, was that they might end up having to restore ecological integrity, because Gatineau Park and the greenbelt are so huge in territory that it would be impossible to attain a level of restoration.

I am shocked that the government would propose this sort of amendment. I am not sure whether there was a breakdown of communication between the Department of Transport and the National Capital Commission.

To alleviate the problem, or rather to solve the problem, I want to suggest using the wording from our amendment, LIB-7, as a subamendment to amendment G-6. Furthermore, that kind of subamendment to amendment G-6 would be in line with the decisions we have made to date, especially the decision to include the Greenbelt in these discussions. Amendment G-6 refers to the management of any property of the National Capital Commission located in Gatineau Park, but not to the management of such property located in the Greenbelt.

If we could propose amendment LIB-7 as a subamendment to amendment G-6, I think that would make it a lot more acceptable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

What I'm hearing on amendment G-6 is basically that it would read, in proposed subclause 10.4(2), “In the management of any property of the Commission that is an immovable located in Gatineau Park or real property located in the Greenbelt, the Commission shall”.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, except that, if I may—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

—it would still leave the English wording different from the French wording. In the French wording of amendment Liberal-7, we are talking of maintaining the ecological integrity--maintaining, not restoring. In the French of amendment G-6, we're talking of preserving and re-establishing or restoring the ecological....

Ideally we would reject amendment G-6 and then accept amendment Liberal-7, so maybe that's what we should do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm not going to tell him how to vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I wanted to make it clear to my colleagues here that our critic for this bill has gone through, as I believe everyone here had the opportunity to go through, extensive consultation with the government on what would be an acceptable degree of understanding on this particular bill so that it could move forward and this could be completed. Now, I respect what my critic has done, and I am supporting what he has done here.

I have my point of view on some of these things. I use Gatineau Park regularly. I cycle there. I recognize that there is a multiplicity of uses there, because I've been through that park many, many times.

I see that to say you can separate human use from ecological integrity is not possible; you must include a variety of uses in the park. That's clear. The other day when I was cycling there, I came around a corner and I just about ran over a black bear. The only way I would not have run over that black bear and maintained its ecological integrity was if they refused to have me in the park.

So I say there are priorities. I don't want to give up the priority of having a bicycle path through the park so that I can protect the ecological integrity of the bear. I want to coexist. I yelled at the bear and it got out of my way, so I was pleased about that.

The park is a multiple-use area, and you have to be sensitive to that as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Monsieur Proulx, are you making that as a subamendment?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Well, there are differences in the wording. For example, the original wording said, “The Commission shall give due regard to the maintenance of the ecological integrity”. The reason we wanted to have an amendment is that the French version was talking of a different action by saying “preserving”.

Originally it said “maintenance”. We had witnesses from the NCC saying that was fine. Now they're saying “maintenance or restoration”. This is a bit of nonsense here.

Before I go too far, on a point of order, the notice of this meeting said 11 to 12:30. It is now 12:50.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

It said 12:45, but I just thought since we had fairly delved into the....

I'm at the call of the committee.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I beg to differ, but this read 11 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. That's fine. We can continue.

We're going to have to vote against amendment G-6, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay.

(Amendment agreed to)

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Are amendments BQ-7, BQ-8, and Liberal-7 gone?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

They're gone.

(Clause 10 as amended agreed to)

With that, I'm going to suspend the meeting and have a brief subcommittee meeting immediately following. Because we are going in camera, I would ask everybody to please leave as quickly as possible.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]