Transport Committee on Nov. 4th, 2010

[Simon Dubé]

In fact, it would limit the power to expropriate land, based on the delimitations set out in the Act, to outside Gatineau Park.

The National Capital Commission's only recourse, for property located outside the park, would be to approach the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and see whether the property in question, that it wanted to expropriate outside Gatineau Park, falls within the definition of "public works". That might potentially be difficult to do, particularly if it were, for example, to expand Gatineau Park.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

By definition, that means we would be handcuffing the National Capital Commission when it comes to any future development on the Outaouais side.

[Simon Dubé]

That's possible. However, you have to keep in mind that expropriation is an instrument of last resort. Normally...

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Right. That is always what applies?

[Simon Dubé]

Theoretically, yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

[Le président, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The idea behind it all is that section 92 of the Canadian constitution gives the provinces jurisdiction over property. As a result, expropriation would impinge on provincial powers.

With respect to Gatineau Park we are prepared to retain it. However, elsewhere, under what we are proposing, we do not recognize expropriation by the federal government of land outside Gatineau Park that is in the territory of Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci.

Is there no further comment?

(Amendment BQ-10 negatived)

We shall now move to amendment BQ-11.

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, it is in the same spirit as amendment BQ-10.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I want to be very clear in my mind.

Mr. Dubé, what does this amendment mean? Is it meant to keep or remove the right of expropriation within the boundaries of the park?

[Simon Dubé]

It's complementary. If amendment BQ-10 had been accepted, it would have been logical for amendment BQ-11 to be accepted as well. The two go together. As Mr. Nadeau explained, the intent is to limit the power of expropriation.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Seeing no further comment, shall BQ-11 carry?

(Amendment BQ-11 negatived)

We're now going to move to amendment BQ-12.

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The purpose of amendment BQ-12 is to remove the NCC's right to expropriate land belonging to the Government of Quebec, within the boundaries of Gatineau Park. So that means that neither the National Capital Commission nor the federal government should have the right to expropriate from the Government of Quebec. If transfer of the management right is necessary, in the eyes of all actors, it should be mandatory that it be done by agreement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Comment?

Monsieur Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Dubé, what about the Government of Canada's rights of expropriation as regards a province?

At present, Mr. Nadeau is giving us only part of the explanation, because it involves only the province of Quebec or the municipality in issue. Let's look only at the provincial aspect. As a general rule, what are the agreements or powers of the Government of Canada in relation to the expropriation of provincial property, in Quebec or elsewhere?

[Simon Dubé]

Unfortunately, I don't have the expertise to answer that somewhat specialized question, but from what I know, in some cases relating to national parks, there has had to be an agreement with the province.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

For the purpose of an expropriation?

[Simon Dubé]

Exactly.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Seeing no further comment, shall BQ-12 amendment carry?

(Amendment negatived)

We'll move to BQ-13.

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The purpose of amendment BQ-13 is to offer the National Capital Commission a right of first refusal in the sale of properties and land inside the park. So if someone wants to sell their property that is inside the park, the National Capital Commission should have the right of first refusal.

The right of first refusal would then enable the National Capital Commission to have the right of first consideration for all properties sold in the park. Gatineau Park is like a piece of Swiss cheese. The Bloc Québécois believes that Gatineau Park should be entirely public. So the National Capital Commission should find ways of eliminating the residential enclaves and making the park complete. That is what we are proposing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.