Evidence of meeting #35 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
We are suggesting that amendments would go a long way towards preserving the privacy of Canadians and their ability to travel through the airspace.
What we're reacting to here is a bit of extortion from the U.S. that says, “From now on, you cannot travel unless you comply with this.”
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
With respect, I have to disagree with you. Extortion in relation to keeping your own people safe? I don't buy that. I mean, their laws are there to keep their people safe. As legislators in Canada, we have to keep Canadians safe, as they have to in their country. That's my obligation, and I take it very seriously.
I'd like to go on to another topic.
Do you travel to the United States?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
What information do you have a problem with airlines sharing with police authorities? What specific information?
I only have seven minutes, and this information is very important to me.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
When you fly, you give information to a front teller of an airline company, to somebody who works there and takes information, or to a telephone operator, what is it that you object to their sharing with police in the United States?
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
It's because they're matching it to a no-fly list that has problems, that has been--
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Your personal information—your name, your gender.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
So you have a problem with sharing that information?
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
No. I'm saying that the process, the sharing and matching to a no-fly list, would not be allowed elsewhere.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Ms. Des Rosiers, with respect, what information specifically do you have a problem with them sharing with the United States?
11:50 a.m.
Director, National Security Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
The issue is contained in your question. What is the information that's going to be shared? We don't know yet. Name, gender--
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
With respect, though, you give the same information to an airline person on the phone, a private company, somebody who can share it with anybody she wants. They don't ask, “Can I share this information with people?”
11:50 a.m.
Director, National Security Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Actually, PIPEDA didn't state that they could share it with anybody. Now that exemption is gone, so that's the issue behind this. If airlines are compiling dossiers on people, if they are compiling information such as whether you showed up at the airport to cancel your flight, how many bags you checked, what your meal preferences were, or what religion you are, and if all of that information, upon a second request from a government, is going to be shared, we want to know how it is going to be used. Will it be used for profiling?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I have never had anybody ask me my religion when I got on a plane, ever. Nobody has ever asked me.
Once again, what do you have a problem sharing with the United States police? Do you have a problem with your visa number, because that's what they're going to share? They might share what sex you are. What information specifically?
11:50 a.m.
Director, National Security Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
It's not sharing your name, but if they take your name and pass it on to another agency that can arrest you, suddenly you're in a position where your rights have been impaired. What can you do to deal with that? Why should an innocent person lose the presumption of innocence?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
You talked about “arrest” and “innocence” in the same two sentences there. I don't see an innocent person getting arrested very often, because they're obviously--
11:50 a.m.
Director, National Security Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Actually, it's what happens with the no-fly list quite a bit, and that's the problem. There are a million names on the no-fly list right now in the United States.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Director, National Security Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
No, there are a million names on the U.S. no-fly list right now. We just met with our colleagues from the ACLU. The reason this case is being challenged before the courts is that they're saying it's completely unconstitutional.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I understand that, but again, I'm still missing it. Your problem, if I may, is that your information may be utilized in a way that you don't agree with?
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Well, privacy is about this: I can share my information with you, but you're supposed to use it only for the purposes that we have agreed upon. Once you decide to give it to X, Y, Z, that's an infringement of my privacy.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
So as long as they notify you ahead of time that they're authorized to share it with any police, and you voluntarily assume they're going to do that and you go to the United States, do you have a problem with that?
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
In our view, it's not going to happen that way. We are abiding by an unconstitutional system in the U.S. That's our difficulty.
If you are feeling a sense of...you could have time-limited legislation.