Transport Committee on Nov. 25th, 2010

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So maybe we need to do—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'm sorry, Ms. Minna.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'll come back to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have two or three brief questions. I'm going to put my first question to Mr. Tassé, who is at the International Civil Liberties Monitoring Group.

When the Americans decided on this program, did you complain to the U.S. Congress or Senate?

[Roch Tassé]

We are a Canadian organization. Secure Flight has been put in place in the United States solely for the United States, for the moment. We therefore did not intervene in the United States. The answer is no.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

So no one talked to the Americans when they put their program in place?

[Roch Tassé]

The American Civil Liberties Union is currently challenging Secure Flight in the United States within its own borders.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I have another question. Do you think Canada has a list of malefactors, like that of the Americans?

[Roch Tassé]

The airlines currently have the list. They're the ones doing the surveillance.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The Canadian airlines?

[Roch Tassé]

Yes, the Canadian airlines—Air Canada, for example. That's why they have not yet had to send the information to the United States, since they have the list. With Secure Flight, they won't have the list any more. They'll have to send passenger information to the Department of Homeland Security in the United States. It's the Department of Homeland Security that gives directives to the airlines, that determines whether such and such an individual may board the aircraft. Legally, this is the first time we're sending this information to the United States.

We also have a number of examples of people who have previously been intercepted in Canada, even on domestic flights, and who were told that they were on the U.S. list. So Air Canada is probably already sending information illegally to the United States, even though this bill has not yet been passed.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Have you met the Europeans to discuss their decision? They don't seem to be much in agreement on this bill with regard to the American Secure Flight policy.

[Roch Tassé]

We haven't met with the U.S. government. However, we have partners in the civil liberties field with whom we constantly speak. There is considerable objection in Europe, even in the European Parliament. There is a lot of concern.

Earlier, in the same connection, I said that, if Canada developed a partnership with the Europeans, there would be a real chance that we could bring pressure to bear on the United States—not alone, but with international partners.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the witnesses for coming today. I'm very interested in what you have to say.

I have had an opportunity to listen to what you said. You talked about rights, that mobility around the world is a right, and sovereignty. You also mentioned the right to mobility, the right to fly, that fundamental justice is infringed upon, that the rights of Canadians are violated, that there's no form of redress, that it violates aspects of international law and fundamental freedoms, and that the rights of Canadians are violated.

I mean, wow, that's amazing what you're saying, but I don't agree with you.

I'm a lawyer, and I notice, Ms. Vonn, that you're a lawyer. You were called to the bar in B.C. in 2004?

[Micheal Vonn]

That's a six-and-a-half-year call. I believe so, yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Yes, in 2004.

Did you ever practise?

[Micheal Vonn]

I practised for a very short time in union side labour law before I joined the B.C. Civil Liberties Association as the policy director.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

How long did you practise for?

[Micheal Vonn]

Probably six months.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Did you ever practise international law?

[Micheal Vonn]

I certainly did not, but--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Order.

Ms. Crombie, on a point of order.