Transport Committee on March 3rd, 2011

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

This doesn't have to do with level crossings, but you're speaking on behalf of a national organization. Are we seeing this phenomenon we're experiencing with the railways diminishing in length happening in certain sectors of the country, certain provinces over other provinces?

[Merrill Henderson]

I think it certainly has happened throughout Canada. Here in Newfoundland, for example, the rail industry has been removed entirely. In the province of P.E.I., it has been removed entirely. I know in the province I live in, New Brunswick, it has certainly been reduced considerably.

Most of the issues we deal with in terms of rail are usually a result of complaints from either organizations or citizens regarding blocked crossings, or noise, vibrations, things of this nature. Those are a lot of the issues we deal with through our committee. We have set up guidelines and protocols, and we've been very successful in dealing with those.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How are the diminishing rail-line operations affecting the economic development of the municipalities that your organization represents?

[Merrill Henderson]

I can't really speak to that; I can only speak to the city I live in, which is Moncton, New Brunswick. We went through a real economic challenge back in the mid eighties, and there were a significant number of rail jobs eliminated in our community.

Moncton was created as a result of the rail industry. But we have diversified, and our economy is very, very strong today. We have a very limited number of rail jobs in the city of Moncton right now.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

From the standpoint of any manufacturing that may be done there, has there been an alternate form of transportation found for getting your products to the other end of the country?

[Merrill Henderson]

We have three major trucking companies with headquarters in Moncton.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So they've picked up the slack that the railway previously had provided.

[Merrill Henderson]

Exactly.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do you have any rail lines going through Moncton at all?

[Merrill Henderson]

The main line goes right through the centre of the city.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

With respect to your committee and the sorts of complaints you hear, are there any that have to do with fires set seemingly as a consequence of the dry summer months and the sparks that are sometimes created by the wheels hitting the rails, or the friction in between?

[Merrill Henderson]

I'm sure we have had that issue, but I can't recall anything at the present time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We've had some of those in the past as well, especially in outlying areas where the municipalities are so small they don't have a firefighting service. I was wondering if those were isolated incidents or something across the country that you'd heard about.

In terms of the noise and the complaints, are there generally bylaws across municipalities that are able to deal with this?

[Merrill Henderson]

I suspect there are. For example, in our municipality there is no whistle-blowing. They can't blow the whistle within our municipal boundaries except when there are work crews. If there's a work crew in the area, then they are required by law to blow the whistle. Other than that, there's no whistle-blowing when they go through our city.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Would that not be part of rail safety--to have somebody in the vicinity of a crossing made aware through sound transmission?

[Merrill Henderson]

That would have to be approved by the Canadian Transport Commission. That was obviously approved by them, because it's been in place for a long time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Unless there's anything on this side, we'll go to Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's good to be back at your committee. It's been a while, and I'm looking forward to participating in this debate.

I thank our witnesses and share with them the distinction of having served on a city council. In my case, it was for nine years in Abbotsford, British Columbia.

In my community we have rail lines criss-crossing our territory. We have had issues with noise, as I'm sure many of your members have. We have some very significant issues with rail safety. To top it off, in our community, which is one of the fastest growing in Canada, we have had increasing problems of trying to address traffic flows because of industrial and residential development. Those are all serious challenges for growing communities. So any time we can improve communication between railways and communities, and between railways and residents, I think you would agree, that's a good thing.

With respect to the issue at hand, which is notice, you had referred to the 2003 consultation, which resulted in the memorandum of understanding that you spoke of approvingly. Before I get into other questions, could you articulate some of the key areas of that memorandum that you have found to be very helpful in your dealings with the railways?

[Merrill Henderson]

I don't have a copy of the memorandum in front of me, but as I said before, our committee is made up of representation from all of the rail industry along with municipal members of councils from across Canada. There have been a number of issues that we have assisted the municipalities, the community, and the rail industry to resolve over the years, and that has served us well.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Perhaps, Ms. Leibovici, I will ask you this, because you were the one who raised the memorandum.

Can you point to any specific successes arising out of the memorandum that have helped you in your relationship with the railways?

[Karen Leibovici]

I think the biggest success was just getting to sit down at the table to talk to each other. That has not always been the past practice. At times the relationship between the municipalities and the railways has not been the friendliest, and it has been adversarial at times.

The memorandum of understanding provides us with a forum where we can sit down, discuss some of the issues you have brought up in the questions today, and move beyond fixed positions towards how to deal with these issues, looking at some of the best practices. A website has been put together where people can see some of the solutions that have been put forward. So that's what the committee provides for us.

It was a memorandum to say, let's sit down and highlight what some of the issues are, whether it's noise or proximity, and how do we move forward to deal with those? The process is still in the works. Do we have all the answers? No, but we're sitting at the same table together, and I think that's important.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Given the fact that the memorandum has been in place for almost eight years and you haven't pointed to any specific successes it has spawned, I suppose the effort by the railway association to address the issue of notification is perhaps an effort to move this forward.

You mentioned that you can't impose a one-size-fits-all program, because every municipality is unique in its requirements and needs. So if we're not going to impose a one-size-fits-all solution, what is your solution? Are you simply suggesting that things be left as they are and municipalities individually apply their own standards?

[Karen Leibovici]

We have an example of where it worked quite well in Ontario. Through the provincial government and the municipalities--the associations there--and the railway, they came to an understanding and agreement on the 300 metres. So there is an example and a model there. It fits the needs of the municipalities in Ontario, as well as the needs of the provincial government.

If you took the Ontario model--which is what is being proposed here--and tried to place it in the Yukon, Northwest Territories, or P.E.I., would it work? Perhaps, but it would probably work a whole lot better if the discussions occurred with those provincial and territorial associations. FCM would be a member of that, as well as the provincial or territorial order of government. I think then you'd get to a....

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Fast.

I'll go around the table to see if there are any others.

Mr. Warkentin.