Transport Committee on March 8th, 2011

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I think Mr. Guimond had his hand up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Monsieur Guimond, a comment?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I had some important questions for the witnesses. However, I would like to second Mr. McCallum's motions.

Besides, the witnesses I had the questions for are no longer here.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

If you want to call them back, it's clear I won't get my motion through. It's clear we won't get unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I have let them go now, so I'm not calling them back. We have a vote bell ringing in about two minutes so, if you want to present your motion, you can do that.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Present the motion.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay. I think my motion is very simple. It's to request from the government a list of economic action plan events since January 1, 2011, where no new funding was announced. It lists a number of items relevant to each event that we are asking information on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

So the motion has been presented. Comment?

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'd like to know the purpose. I see this motion in front of me, and I'd like to know the purpose of the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

The purpose of the motion is to obtain this information. Our experience is that this government doesn't willingly give information. So the only way in which we can get it is to ask questions of this kind.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In five business days, Mr. McCallum?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Yes. If they can't do that, then they can respond accordingly and tell us how many business days it would take.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I have Mr. Trost, Mr. Watson, and Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I suspect I'm going to have more than one round of comments on this motion.

The first comment I would have to make, looking through this list of issues and requests, is that I rather suspect even.... I mean, let's be blunt here: there's no way in five business days, even if they put all the king's horses and all the king's men.... This is just not doable.

The other element of this is that I'm pretty sure the government and whoever they're requesting for this doesn't have all this information. They're asking for “All members of the Conservative Caucus present”. I'm not sure why they're not asking for any opposition members present, but--

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

You didn't invite them--

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

--maybe that's a friendly amendment we could put into it.

“Method of travel for each caucus member”? Mr. Chair, I have been to economic action plan events, and I don't know whether or not there was no new funding or new funding. I've been to these events. I've driven with my own truck. In fact, I think I've driven with my own truck to every single economic action plan event that I've announced, because they're in my constituency, or essentially bordering on my constituency; maybe a few blocks over I did a joint event with another member. What the honourable member is asking is that he be allowed to basically go into my office and start pulling mileage logs, receipts, and stuff like that on how I drove to an event. I just find that sort of silly.

If he is interested in basically finding out how the government communicated its economic action plan, if he did this, I think he should look again at his motion here and figure out how to make it more manageable, shrink off a few items, and bring it to a point where the request could be done.

I personally think the communication has been very well handled. It is important that there's accountability to constituents on issues. That's one of the strengths that the economic action plan has had: we've communicated directly to people the things that we've done. We've been clear that there has been a strategic plan that has been well thought out.

I think of a time when we had the Western Economic Diversification witnesses here, when we were discussing how things were on time, and they noted that the rollout for the infrastructure spending for the government's economic action plan was smoother and better than anything they'd ever seen. It was more on time, costs were more accurate, and projects were getting done. It was just amazing. Frankly, a lot of it appeared to be, from what they told us as a committee--it's in the transcripts--by doing less bureaucracy, which is to be commended.

I'll turn the mike over to other members for comments, but again, as a suggestion to my honourable friend, maybe he should trim down his requests--because five days is just impossible for people to do--and focus on information and ideas that he could actually get from the department or that would be easier to get there. And frankly, he shouldn't ask if each member has taken their truck to events. I find that sort of silly. I mean, I have to report to this committee about how I use my pickup truck...? It will take days to just figure out these events, and there are going to be questions about what qualifies and what doesn't.

That's some friendly advice to my colleague to revise his motion and maybe bring it back at another meeting where it could be worked into a more reasonable and workable form. Then we could have the elements of communication that he's so interested in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not even sure where I want to start on this.

I think the request that this be done in five days completely undercuts the credibility of the motion. In other words, I'm not sure that the honourable member opposite is actually as concerned with having the information as he is with making a point about asking for the information.

Five business days is not reasonable. There are other means for requesting the same information, which all members of Parliament have at their disposal. They could compel the government to produce documents and papers. The typical government response for something weighty or lengthy is 45 days. It is probably reasonable to expect that civil servants and the resources we put to the function of government aren't unduly diverted, if you will, to meet a request of this nature with only five business days given to compile this kind of information. Clearly, the member doesn't want to wait 45 days. I'm not sure why, other than to make a point.

I'm not sure, Mr. Chair, whether this same information has been requested through the other means, which is to give the government 45 days for a response, and he wants to use an opportunity to force it at committee, when we're in the middle of estimates, with the TV cameras on, to try to make a point about this. If that's the case, that type of posturing is a significant departure for this committee.

I've been on this committee, Mr. Chair, for about four or five years. I can say that the composition of the committee before was extremely collegial. There was the desire of members to work in consensus fashion. We were highly productive with respect not only to studies but to getting legislation through, both government and opposition. That is deteriorating under the new configuration, specifically of official opposition members. I am hoping that it is not going to become the trend that the committee will be used to make a point rather than to solicit information in a responsible manner.

I'm opposed to the motion. It is not responsible to ask the government to commit significant resources to gathering information.

Of course, this is not in isolation, Mr. Chair. This motion, if approved, goes along with a lot of others, and others that are intended to be brought forward and presumably passed, that would compel officials to compile a whole myriad of things within very small and tight timelines. I'm not sure that it is responsible. I don't think this motion should be considered outside of that context. If the member really wants the information to be gathered, waiting 40 extra days isn't going to kill anybody.

I'm opposed to the motion on those grounds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would love to see if Mr. Trost wants to put Liberals in. I have seen that there was not a single Liberal invited to these events to be a party to the events. Maybe that is why Mr. McCallum is asking for this.

Recently we've seen the developments in what the Conservatives are doing. They are using taxpayers' money for propaganda and for running their election campaigns. Maybe all these things will tell us how much taxpayers' money was wasted by Conservatives to promote their own members in this particular thing.

I would love to support my friend Mr. McCallum's motion--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'd like to hear more.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Let's be open and transparent. Mr. Chair, why aren't the Conservatives ready to vote? They are open. They are transparent. They should not shy away from giving this information out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I can't help thinking that a lot of this research has already been done. I seem to recall the opposition--