Transport Committee on Sept. 28th, 2011

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I find it interesting that we have all the ingredients required for public transit, but no national strategy. I would like to explore that a bit further. Then we can get into funding.

Obviously, in the greater Montreal area, the Montreal metropolitan community, the CMM, represents 70% of Quebec's economy. So you have a population base of 3.6 million people. And that's not just the city; that includes 82 municipalities.

When we were in power, we had what we called “structuring projects” and the Building Canada plan. We invested in so-called structuring projects. There is still the issue of the main contractor—we agree—which Quebec and the municipalities decide. Nevertheless, there could be ad-hoc programs.

Does your strategy take into account the idea of structuring projects? Obviously, public transit presents a changing dynamic, not only because of use, but also because of ridership and so forth. Did you look at that in terms of ad-hoc programs?

We talked about subways and buses. I would imagine that if we want to incorporate rural areas, we need a rail policy. Does your strategy factor in such a policy? Ultimately, everything will be interconnected. Do you think a rail policy should form part of a public transit policy?

[Francis Bilodeau]

I will answer the first part of the question about structuring projects. We are talking about major strategic projects. There was the Canadian Strategic Infrastructure Fund, which, in some ways, corresponds to the Building Canada Fund, Major Infrastructure Component, which totals approximately $6.7 billion. The Building Canada Fund totals $8.8 billion. And $6.7 billion is earmarked for major strategic projects. That means there is a provincial portion. Projects are selected and discussed individually. The projects are then assessed to ensure that they are large-scale strategic projects that have regional significance. That is my response to the first part of the question.

As for the second part of the question about rail and rail strategies, I am less knowledgeable there. Mr. Sarantakis may have something to add. But questions about a rail strategy might be more appropriate for Transport Canada.

[Taki Sarantakis]

Rail is the word....

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

That's your portfolio. I would imagine you discuss it on occasion.

[Taki Sarantakis]

Yes, we do discuss it on occasion.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

...in communications.

[Taki Sarantakis]

I am not directly in charge of that area, however.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

You're not in charge, but you talk. I understand.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You know what that's like.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Order.

Monsieur Coderre, thank you.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Certain people go....

I'll be nice.

We must show respect toward our young people if we want them to stay in politics.

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

On rail, do you...?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Do you want to talk about rail?

[Taki Sarantakis]

Rail in the context of public transit or rail as a...?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Because we're using rail.

[Taki Sarantakis]

Yes, we're using rail. Rail tends to be used again in regional transit. So you have Metrolinx, which provides GOTransit service in Toronto, which is run over rail lines. Again, in Quebec there's heavy usage of rail lines for public transit, and it's less so in Vancouver.

In Canada, as you know, the rail system largely is privately owned, and to the extent that it's utilized in public transit, the public transit authorities, be they municipal or regional, have to enter into agreements with the two large operators, which are CN and CP, which own those lines. I'll let my colleagues at Transport Canada speak to this more, because they're in charge of this, but there's been a concerted effort in recent years on the part of the federal government to try to protect those rail corridors for transit in the future. But those assets at the end of the day are privately held.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay.

Even though he is from the greater Toronto area and I am from Montreal, I was very much in agreement with what my friend Mr. Wallace said. He was saying that we should look at how municipalities were spending the money.

I would think that your minister doesn't do what the President of the Treasury Board does and doesn't send an email to the Muskoka region to see how the money can be spent. They don't do that in your area, do they?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I don't think you deserve an answer to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

That's the end of the five-minute round.

I'll move to Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'm glad somebody still calls me young. In this Parliament, I feel like I'm getting up in years when I look across the way.

First of all, if I could just say to our witnesses, I'm sorry to have put you on the spot in asking for the magic number on the farebox rate of return or percentage of cost recovery. I think it's probably unfair to ask you to answer a question like that spontaneously, but if the department does have any thoughts on that, please feel free to share them with the committee, as I think there seems to be some interest in establishing some thresholds here in our discussion on public transit.

There was also discussion on investments by the federal government in Montreal.

I think, Mr. Sarantakis, you attempted to explain that there are different terms and conditions in relation to investments in Quebec from what there are in other provinces. Is that what you were getting at earlier?

[Taki Sarantakis]

It's not different terms and conditions, but different protocols. In the agreement that we signed between the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec, the way that Building Canada, or Chantiers Canada, works in Quebec is that the province must propose things to the federal government, and then the federal government selects from that list. In other jurisdictions, it's possible for a municipality, for example, to propose something directly to the federal government. That's not the case in the agreement with Quebec. The terms and conditions are the same, but the way that projects come forward to the Government of Canada is slightly different in the Quebec context.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

How many projects were funded under the EAP?

[Francis Bilodeau]

It was around 4,000 under the infrastructure stimulus fund itself.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

That's just the infrastructure stimulus fund. What about the broader stimulus?