Evidence of meeting #38 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicle.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
No, but I was wondering, for example, if you were ignoring PM.1 and PM0.1 in creating this number of 100%, and you're only dealing with PM10. If that's what's going on, I wanted to know where those numbers came from.
The marine regulations that you're talking about that are to be enforced in 2015, are those applicable on the oceans, or only on the lakes?
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
They'll apply to the Great Lakes as of 2015, and it's a 200-mile perimeter on the east and west coasts already. What happens with the big transocean shippers is they have two fuel systems. As soon as they come into that ecozone, they'll switch it over to the cleaner fuel. As soon as they're out of it, they'll switch it back to the bunker.
Right now in the Baltic Sea, it is an environmental—
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
It's also a zone like this. No, no, the whole thing. But that's what's coming in the Great Lakes. They will have no options. So for the short sea shippers that stay within that inland water, they will have to either add the scrubber technologies, go to a lower emission fuel, or if they can get the fuel supply.... Up to now, of course, the price of natural gas couldn't compete. It hasn't been able to compete in this market. But now fuel or technology costs...it's got to go up to comply.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
I was interested to know whether or not the transoceanic folks are actually going to carry two fuels, and I guess they are, which is strange.
Essentially, it's regulation that has driven the potential adoption of natural gas as a fuel because of our interest in clean air and of our interest in reducing carbon dioxide emissions. Is natural gas merely a stop-gap? In other words, we have to reduce our carbon dioxide emissions by 75% by 2050. Carbon dioxide is 23%. So either we reduce our transportation by 80% by 2050 and use natural gas, or we find another technology.
Do you have some ideas?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Gas Association
As I understand the question, you said it's regulation that's driving the consideration of natural gas as an option. I'd actually say that it's regulation that has driven the search for alternatives to diesel, but it's the affordability of natural gas that's presenting natural gas as an alternative. That's the fundamental change, as we see it.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
I'm aware the big rail companies are looking at liquefied natural gas because they can carry a tank of it behind the locomotive. It's more efficient for them to carry their fuel that way than it is to carry a tank of urea, which is what they have to do to scrub the particulates out of their exhaust to meet tier-four standards. So there's a big struggle happening. Some of them are actually going to use the urea systems, but I understand there are some discussions going on with CN about creating a fleet of natural-gas-powered vehicles that--and correct if I'm wrong--could actually go across Canada twice on one tank.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Gas Association
I don't know what the range is, but you're correct that the conversations are under way, looking at natural gas as an alternative, using LNG, as you say, tanked on the train.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
Is there a similar potential on the Great Lakes, that the regulations are going to drive them into LNG rather than scrubber technologies, as is suggested, rather than the urea?
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
Yes, I'd say very strongly.
In terms of working with Transport Canada right now, they recognize.... They did a study a year ago on the alternatives for compliance and what the alternatives were going to cost the shippers. The high-level conclusion on alternative fuels—and they looked at biodiesel and renewable-based other alternatives—is really only LNG to be able to get there. There are a lot of changes in that area, a lot of questions around bringing the pieces togther to bring that fuel into the market, since it is a new market.
I would mention also that in Quebec the primary driver for the ferries was carbon reduction. Of course some of the other benefits, like affordability, etc., were great, but they did that as part of a whole environmental initiative as they upgraded the ferries.
Conservative
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all. It has been a really interesting discussion so far, and I'm looking forward to hearing a little bit more in some of the questions I have. I have a whole series of questions, so I'll get right into it.
My questions are for Mr. Sanford and Mr. Egan mainly, so I'll start with you, Mr. Sanford, on the home refueling. Ms. Milner, if you have anything to add, please feel free to do so.
In terms of the home refueling stations, I guess I'm trying to understand them a little bit better, so I'll start with a couple of questions. What sort of lifespan does one of these home refueling stations have, and what issues have there been with them in terms of typical malfunctions? Do they need to be repaired, and what happens when they do need to be repaired?
I'll start with those two questions.
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
Perfect. When we take a look at the two home refuelers that were illustrated earlier, the VRA--that's the FMQ-2 model--it has roughly--
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB
Pardon me, which one's that? Is that the one that's inside the garage, or the larger--
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
The larger one on the outside. That's because that's the one that is currently on the market right now, so I can speak first-hand on it.
You're looking at roughly 5,000 hours before a rebuild has to take place on that compressor module. Inside the housing, you actually have four components. There's a compressor module, controls module, electronics module, and the fan.
The operating part of the compressor itself, in the compression module, typically has a lifespan of about 5,000 hours, roughly 15,000 litres of fuel. After that lifespan of roughly 5,000 hours, you would change the compressor module.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB
Talking in terms of the number of refuels for an average-sized vehicle, would you be looking at 3,000 or so?
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
Yes, in that range. Then you'd be looking at about a $1,500 cost at that point, to change that compressor module to get another 5,000 hours. Hopefully by that time it would have spread out to 7,000 to 10,000 hours. Over the years there has been an increase in lifespan on those compressors, so it's a tremendous benefit at that point.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB
Okay. The smaller units that are inside the garage, they're not really in use right now. Are they sort of in development stages?
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
We're going through the certification process right now. We're looking for it to be launched sometime around the fall. It's about 6,000 hours for that compressor. However, you're only--
Conservative
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
In that case you're compressing natural gas and producing about one litre per hour, so there's less compression.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB
Okay. That actually leads nicely to the next question I had. I know Mr. Poilievre talked a bit about this earlier, but right now their use would be maybe for a commuter, that kind of thing, for whom this would work well. Someone like myself, who does a lot of driving—I have a large riding—something like this maybe wouldn't work as well if it were your only refueling method.
Is there any work being done in terms of trying to improve the speed or the rate at which these refuelers would work, or is that something that's not possible?
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
Cost-effectively, no. It's something that has been launched around typical commuters, so they've analyzed the range that's required for the average commuter. In speaking of the FMQ-2 VRA model, you're looking at something that is adequate for the amount of fuel that's typically used by a heavy commuter.
