Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2011

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Actually, on the substance of the point of order.

If I understand correctly, the allotted time belongs to the member, so I defend his use of his time as he appreciates it. If he feels the question is not being answered and he needs to intervene, it is the member's time. I would defend that same right for my honourable colleague across the way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

I will rule it not a point of order. I do think it's important that our committee members have the right to challenge something being given to the committee as document or as presentation. I believe that's what Mr. Poilievre was doing.

You have one minute and forty seconds.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

I guess my concern is that we always have groups before committees whose vested interest is in greater government spending, spending which can only be paid for by taxpayers because there is no other source of money for public administration. It doesn't really seem to matter to these groups how much we increase spending, because there is always some pretext to increase it even more. I guess that's why I've asked you to be specific, because you've been very specific in your request for more taxpayer dollars. I represent 100,000 plus citizens, most of whom are taxpayers, and they're getting tired of paying, so I'm just asking for you to be very specific about why it is that we still need more tax increases.

Today you proposed a GST increase. If you're going to come before a parliamentary committee and demand that taxpayers shell out yet more, I think it's only fair that you be specific as to why we need more spending on top of the already extremely generous increases that have occurred at all levels of government in the last decade.

[Toby Sanger]

Just to correct the record, the CUTA proposal is for one cent of the federal gas tax, not for an increase on the GST at this stage.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Where does that come from?

[Toby Sanger]

The federal government collects gas tax money, so that comes from the federal government.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Are you proposing to increase the gas tax then?

[Toby Sanger]

No, no, no.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

So where does that come from?

[Toby Sanger]

Where does that come from? It comes from federal government revenues.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

And where does that come from?

[Toby Sanger]

It is already being collected right now. If you're interested in proposals in terms of increasing revenue or restoring revenue--

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

No, we're not, actually.

[Toby Sanger]

--the first place to start would be to cancel the corporate income tax cut.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Order, please.

What I'm going to suggest before I go to Mr. Adler for new questions is that you're suggesting that the one percent come out of the current existing gas tax revenue that is allocated to municipalities. Am I correct?

[Toby Sanger]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Watson, on a point of order.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

We may have to wait until the blues come out, but I do believe that Mr. Moist had actually suggested a one cent...or a one percent increase in the GST. We should verify that for the committee, or I think Mr. Moist could clarify his position.

[Paul Moist]

Mr. Chairman, I gave you an example of the mayor of Winnipeg. He's only one elected official. He's accountable to 600,000 Canadians. He has argued that the space created by the GST cuts should be occupied by a dedicated infrastructure fund that the Government of Manitoba would remit to the City of Winnipeg. He's only one spokesman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I will rule that not a point of order but a good response to a point.

Mr. Adler.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for appearing here today.

I have a couple of questions just following up on Mr. Poilievre's line of questioning. With regard to the increase in public spending that you indicated, are you talking about just the one cent, or about increasing taxes in other areas also to fund the public...?

[Paul Moist]

We're talking about a renewal of things like the Building Canada fund.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

But how would you pay for that? Please be specific.

[Paul Moist]

We would pay for that out of general government revenues dedicated towards putting people to work and meeting the $125 billion deficit, which the delegation from the FCM spoke to you about last week.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay. Maybe it's me, but I don't quite understand. What general revenues are you talking about? Do you mean of the Government of Canada? Where do these general revenues come from?