Transport Committee on March 19th, 2013

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The public works minister is the person responsible for the file and related strategies. Clearly, we support what's happening. She is the one in charge of all that. From our standpoint, what matters is continuing to do the work that needs to be done. But I can't tell you today what the final decision will be, Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

But you do perform audits of the funding allocated to transportation, do you not?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Precisely. That's how we work to maintain the whole.

What Mr. Lévesque said is important. We are often criticized for reducing budgets, but the infrastructure program is dependent on when the provinces submit their invoices. We pay them when they give us their invoices. If the province doesn't submit their invoice, even though we are expecting it, we can't release the funds. So that's really how it works.

Thank you very much for the question.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

You met with Minister Gaudreault recently about the Champlain Bridge. You asked him what he wanted, saying you were going to do it. We've heard more about Minister Gaudreault's version of the events than yours.

If the Government of Quebec asked you for extra funding for public transit, would you be willing to make a commitment in that respect, or do you think it's entirely on Quebec?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

As you know, on October 5, 2011, when we announced the building of the new bridge, we had already asked Quebec for their priorities in terms of types of public transit. In order to move forward with our business plan, it is important to know whether we are laying asphalt for buses to drive on or tracks for trains. Obviously, the two don't cost the same thing. Our business plan, which we will have by the end of the year, is continuing to move forward. That is why we need their answer. Clearly, public transit is in the provincial domain, and we will supply them with the infrastructure they need to implement what they choose.

That being said, we offered them the same thing we offered the rest of the country. The Quebec media is reporting a $600-million contribution from Ottawa. Those choices fall entirely within the province's infrastructure envelope. Quebec's choices represented $700 million for Highway 30 and another $375 million for Highway 175.

We will wait to see what the next budget holds. But, if there is an infrastructure program with money for the provinces, and if Quebec asks us to prioritize public transit in terms of the new bridge over the St. Lawrence, that will be Quebec's choice. And we will respect it, Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

So there won't be any extra money. It will come from the existing envelopes. Is that what you're saying?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It will come from future envelopes. We'll see where things stand in the next budget. The $600 million for Ottawa's light rail project came from the existing envelopes. It's from the envelope for—

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

But there are structuring projects out there, minister. And it is possible to speak with the treasury board. It's been done in the past.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

If you have structuring projects, it can be done as well.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, that's right.

Right now, we're being criticized under the pretext that we did it for other provinces. You can't ask for all the money to go to highway infrastructure projects, and then ask us to pay for another infrastructure project the following week. The envelope contained a few billion dollars.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

But you're aware of it.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, we're aware of it, Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

This is my last question, as I have only 30 seconds left.

When you make funding cuts to maritime or aviation safety and security, for example, do you make sure there isn't any collateral damage on the languages front?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We are working on that. Quite clearly, as a francophone from Quebec, I keep a very close eye on that. The team with me today is very sensitive to the French fact, Mr. Coderre. We'll approach the issue as we always have, with great care and vigilance.

Bear in mind, however, that we haven't made any reductions to safety or security. When you mention aviation safety and security, it involves managing costs, operations and administration. No inspector positions have been cut. I want to make that clear.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Forgive me, but I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm being told that the government has cut up to $15 million from the operating budget. That has to have some impact on inspectors.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We're talking about money to administer the airport investment program, the Airports Capital Assistance Program. It, too, involves managing funds in accordance with the claims that we receive. It involves managing and administering $4 billion. It affects administration. Inspector positions have not been cut. On the contrary, we are working on filling available positions. We absolutely have to keep moving forward, and that is what we'll do.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Poilievre, you have seven minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Twenty years ago, there was no federal funding whatsoever for municipal infrastructure. Municipalities funded their infrastructure largely by themselves, with some limited assistance from the provinces, but the federal government had no role at that time. Since 1992, there has been a windfall of money to our municipalities. In the last decade, it has been a spectacular windfall.

I have here the stats from Statistics Canada. In 2001, the municipalities had about $87.4 billion in revenue. In 2011 they had $149.2 billion in revenue. That's data for local governments found at Stats Canada. That is a 70% increase in 10 years. During the same time, we have had only a 30% increase of combined population growth and inflation. In other words, revenues have been growing more than twice as fast as have the costs and the population.

Do you agree that municipalities are now better funded than ever before?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, I agree that they are better funded than ever before. I will speak on behalf of the federal government. For the provincial ones, I will let them answer.

As you know, the needs have changed and the responsibilities too. I'm not here to defend municipalities, but I know they have a lot of challenges in that.

In the end, it's always the same taxpayer. In the end, if you are at the municipal, the provincial, or the federal level, it's always the same taxpayer. That's why we have to be very careful about the way we manage this money.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I note also, according to Stats Canada, that employee compensation for local governments has grown from $46.4 billion to $74.9 billion during the 2001-2011 period. In other words, employee compensation grew by 63% at municipalities in one decade.

That is, again, more than twice as fast as inflation and population growth. Do you agree that the focus should be not necessarily on spending more money but on getting more results for the money we now spend?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm here as the Minister of Transport...and the rest of the title. I note that we have our challenges at the federal level, but municipal politicians have a lot of challenges too. On the pension plan, they have to fix it, like we have to in many organizations. This is a very, very important issue. We want to have a better environment for the country. We want to treat our wastewater to have good water, to have good drinking water. We will continue to work with them, but for sure they have challenges.

We will not manage municipalities on behalf of them, but they have their choices to make. For sure, for them, now they know how the salaries are important in their municipal expenses. I will let them manage that, but I understand now that it's quite a challenge for them, and also to have good workers. We spoke about workers in the past, at the same...at the municipal level. That's difficult. They will give you the answer for why it's like that, the fact that it grew by 63%. In my small municipality, it's not like that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Right—

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It depends on the size of the city, I think.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Since you've been minister, you've delivered legislation on rail freight service. You have put forward plans to construct a bridge from Detroit to Windsor. You have done likewise for a new bridge to replace the Champlain in Quebec. What would you say is the achievement of which you're most proud since taking this position?