Evidence of meeting #7 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Motor Coach Canada
Absolutely. It's in the RFP.
4:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
If you're looking for some examples, in the Ontario area, Milton contracts out theirs. The City of Vaughan contracts out theirs. A number of municipalities do.
The fact is that most people don't know this, because when you contract out, the buses usually are painted with the city transit colours. They don't run as a Coach Canada bus or a Greyhound bus. They run as City of Vaughan buses, but they're actually owned and operated by a private company.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Second, you say “that private...operators be treated the same as public...operators with respect to tax policies, safety...”. Are you just talking about the taxes on fares or are you talking about gas taxes paid? Where is the tax inequality right now?
4:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
It's primarily on fares. That's the major irritant. We're not suggesting that they be exempted from paying corporate taxes or anything like that. In fact, it's not really the tax treatment of the company, it's--
4:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
Exactly: it's the taxes the passenger pays to use the service.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay, got it.
We don't have a lot of time. Forgive my ignorance on this point, but do public transit operators pay the gas tax, the excise tax?
4:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
That's a good question.
4:05 p.m.
A voice
They do.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So there's already equality in that regard. Your concern is with the passenger fare.
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
That's right. Our concern is not our taxes; it's the passengers'--
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
What about the tax credit for public transit use? Would you recommend that it be extended to those who buy fares from private operators?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
Right. The basic principle is exactly as you said: the taxes are paid by the customer, not the company.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay. That's good.
The bottom line here is that the savings to taxpayers that are achievable by partnering with private operators are substantial. Tendering bus operations could save public transit systems up to 21% on their operating costs. To what do you attribute those savings?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
Essentially they're attributable to more efficient operations, to three mechanics doing the work instead of six--
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
--and management overhead costs and that sort of thing.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Do you have data to back this up other than an assertion here in these remarks? Can you provide the committee with some factual support, with some studies?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
We can. It's in the study that the clerk is going to circulate. I will say that the analysis in there isn't a complete line-by-line breakdown. We unfortunately couldn't provide that because the information was provided by the private operators on a confidential basis.
Again, Trevor's experience has been that there are 20% to 30% savings. There are a lot of studies around the world. We can provide you with lists of those other studies from other jurisdictions as well.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
You say that most private sector operators that would be able to take a significant transit contract are in fact already unionized. Why is that relevant?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Motor Coach Canada
It's relevant because usually the criticism of contracting out is that you're doing it on the backs of the driver by slashing well-paid union jobs and replacing them with low-paid non-union jobs. Our point there is that it's not true. In fact, it's usually the same union. It's usually the Amalgamated Transit Union on both sides.
The savings—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
That would seem to limit the competition, then, wouldn't it?