Transport Committee on Nov. 18th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We'll call today's meeting to order. I'd like to thank Minister Lebel for being here, along with his staff.

Before we start, members, I want to remind the committee that we have some committee business at the end of the meeting today, including passing supplementary estimates (B). I propose that at 4:20 or thereabouts we release Minister Lebel; it will take a couple of minutes to change up for Minister Raitt, and then we'll carry on. At approximately 5:15 we'll break for committee business. Is that okay with everyone?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

With that, once again, Minister, thanks for being here today. With no further ado, I'll turn it over to you.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Minister of Infrastructure]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It is always a pleasure and an honour to be here.

First I would like to congratulate you, Mr. Chair, for your election as chair of this committee, and all committee members for their appointments. I've already had the pleasure of working with many of you on this committee in the past, and I'm looking forward to working with all of you in the coming months.

Today my officials and I are here to discuss the 2013-14 supplementary estimates (B) for the infrastructure, communities and intergovernmental affairs portfolio, and for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.

Joining me today from Infrastructure Canada I have the deputy minister, Louis Lévesque; the assistant deputy minister, program operations, Natasha Rascanin, and the assistant deputy minister, corporate services, Su Dazé.

Today I will provide you with an update of the work that has been done in my portfolio since the introduction of economic action plan 2013, and our plans for the coming months.

As you know, economic action plan 2013 delivered on our government's commitment to establish a new long-term infrastructure plan beyond the current Building Canada plan, which has been an enormously successful infrastructure program. Since 2006, our government has supported over 43,000 infrastructure projects in Canada, always working as a strong partner with the provinces, territories, and municipalities, and always respecting their jurisdiction. This project has created jobs, generated economic growth, and contributed to a higher quality of life for all Canadians.

No other government in Canadian history has invested more in Canada's infrastructure than our Conservative government, and I am very proud of the results.

As a direct result of our significant and sustained increases in federal infrastructure investments since we took office, the average age of public infrastructure in Canada has declined from a peak of 17 years in 2004 to 14.4 years in 2011. The average age of Canada's core public infrastructure is now lower than the average of 15.4 years over the period from 1961 to 2011.

This demonstrates that our infrastructure investments are making a real difference in communities across Canada.

We are continuing to do more. The economic action plan of 2013 announced that our government will continue making record investments in Canada's infrastructure. We will invest a total of $70 billion over the next ten years in federal, provincial, territorial, and municipal infrastructure across Canada. This is the longest and largest federal investment in job-creating infrastructure in Canadian history.

The largest portion of this investment is the $53 billion new Building Canada plan, which will support provincial, territorial, and municipal infrastructure through three funds: the community improvement fund, which includes an indexed gas tax fund, and the GST rebate for municipalities. Together this initiative represents $32.2 billion for municipalities over ten years.

The new Building Canada fund will provide $14 billion over ten years through two components. The first is the national infrastructure component, a $4 billion merit-based envelope, and the second is a provincial-territorial infrastructure component, which will provide $10 billion in allocated funding for each province and territory in our federation.

Finally, the P3 Canada fund has been renewed with $1.25 billion over five years. This fund will continue to be administered by PPP Canada.

The new Building Canada plan reflects what we heard through extensive consultations with our partners, the provinces, territories, municipalities and industry, as we built this historic infrastructure plan. Close to 700 partners and stakeholders provided input through round tables, meetings and written submissions.

As we work on developing the outstanding parameters for the new Building Canada Fund, our existing programs will continue to provide funding to infrastructure projects across the country. This represents $6 billion that will continue to flow to projects beyond 2014-15. I am talking about projects such as the following: the St. Catharines Art Centre in Ontario; the Toronto-York-Spadina Subway Extension; the upgrades to drinking water plans in Lévis, Quebec; and the construction of a truck bypass on Highway 39 in Estevan, Saskatchewan.

Work is also underway to sign new agreements with the provinces and territories to renew the now-permanent gas tax fund. These agreements are ready for signature now and will ensure that the $2 billion in funding scheduled for 2014-15 can be transferred to municipalities, so they can continue to use this predictable funding for their local infrastructure priorities.

I would like to remind the committee members that it's our Conservative government that has extended, doubled, indexed, and legislated the gas tax fund as a permanent program. This significant improvement will see Canada's gas tax fund grow by 2% per year going forward, which means an additional $1.8 billion for municipalities over the next decade.

We are also adding more flexibility for municipalities under the renewed gas tax fund by expanding the number of eligible project categories. In addition to the current eligible categories, which are public transit, waste water, water and solid waste infrastructure, community energy systems, local roads and bridges, and capacity building, starting in 2014 there will be new eligible categories: highways, local and regional airports, short-line rail, short-sea shipping, disaster mitigation, broadband and connectivity, brownfield redevelopment, culture, tourism, and sport and recreation. This means significant new flexibility for municipalities to use their federal gas tax fund allocations to invest in their local priorities.

I have said on several occasions, and will repeat again today, that provinces, territories, and municipalities can start planning for new projects now. We have always worked closely with provinces, territories, and municipalities to support their infrastructure priorities and we will continue to do so.

The new Building Canada plan will continue to provide meaningful benefits for Canadians in every region of the country. As I said in the House, the parameters for the new Building Canada fund are currently under development. We will have the new plan in place to ensure that we do not miss a construction season next year.

Since I am here with you today, I would like to take this opportunity to review the commitment and the effort made by our government to build the new bridge over the St. Lawrence and, of course, the maintenance of the Champlain Bridge. As you know, the Champlain Bridge is one of the busiest bridges in Canada. Over and above its role as a major commercial corridor, it is part of the daily commute for thousands of users.

I don't want to dwell on the past, but one fact must be faced. The reason we are now in the situation where the bridge must be replaced without delay is that the previous government was extremely negligent with regard to the funding and maintenance required to preserve the Champlain Bridge. Although a number of ministers from the former government came from the Montreal region, oddly enough, a former mayor from Roberval is now working on this file.

Unfortunately, there is no magic formula to erase past mistakes, but our government is pulling out all the stops in terms of the effort and budget required to remedy the situation as quickly as possible.

At last Friday's press conference, we categorically stated that we would accelerate the commissioning of the new bridge and that a new schedule would be published within the next few weeks. We also held a press conference, on October 2, to launch the construction process of the Nuns' Island causeway. We disseminate information regularly.

The safety of users is a key priority for our government. Therefore, we should keep in mind all the efforts made to maintain the Champlain Bridge. We have invested $380 million for the maintenance of the structure, In addition, we have already announced we will make the necessary additional funding available to the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Incorporated organization to carry out the work recommended in the Buckland & Taylor report, which was received in late September.

As I often say, a project of this size calls for team work. That is why we are working closely with our partners. Since the start of the project, we have been looking at ways to shorten the original time frame, and we are reaching this objective. You may rest assured that our government is determined to deliver a new, reliable and safe bridge as quickly as possible.

I would also like to take a few minutes to speak about the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec. Our advisors provide direct assistance through our 12 business offices to SMEs, economic development stakeholders and organizations by offering them guidance and financial support. Announced in Budget 2012, the Community Infrastructure Improvement Fund, or CIIF, is another fine example of a national initiative launched by our government across Canada. The fund, with a budget of $150 million, supports the rehabilitation and improvement—including the expansion—of existing community infrastructure, such as community centres, sports fields, recreational trails, and so on.

Across the country, this program was a great success with over 6,500 applications, totalling more than $1 billion in requested funding. As of September 18, over $150 million has been approved for 1,800 projects. In Quebec, there are 311 approved projects for potential funding totalling $33.5 million.

Last June, we launched the Canadian Initiative for the Economic Diversification of Communities Reliant on Chrysotile. I want to remind you that the current Quebec government said that it would no longer provide support for the chrysotile asbestos industry. That is when we announced the creation of an initiative that allocates up to $50 million over seven years to support the economic transition of the Appalaches and Les Sources RCMs affected by the decline of the chrysotile asbestos industry. We are working with economic stakeholders to ensure delivery of this initiative. To date, numerous meetings have already taken place to discuss concrete projects.

Seventeen days after the Lac-Mégantic catastrophe, given the lack of programs for that sector—as that was not a natural catastrophe—we announced $60 million in funding in aid of the assistance and rehabilitation efforts in Lac-Mégantic. Of course, our thoughts and prayers are with the families that lost loved ones to this tragic accident. The Conservative government will be there to help the people of Lac-Mégantic, as we have always said. We are currently working on an agreement with the Marois government for aid beyond the first $60 million.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, I would like to thank you for offering me the opportunity to speak to you about the important work that Infrastructure Canada, Transport Canada, and the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec are doing for the country. Thank you for your time. My officials and I will be happy to answer your questions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thanks very much, Minister.

We'll move right into questioning.

Ms. Chow, you have seven minutes.

Just as a reminder, because our meeting is cut up into two one-hour segments, or slightly less, I'm going to be strict on the seven minutes with everyone today.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here, Mr. Minister.

I've looked at the figures and I note that despite the $171 billion infrastructure deficit in Canada, there will be a cut of $5.8 billion over the next five years. This is the figure that came from the Parliamentary Budget Officer. I was hoping to see an increase rather than a decrease in this funding. However, that being said, there's still some money here.

There are only five months left for the municipalities to submit applications to meet the deadline for the construction season, which is April 1. How would you go about negotiating agreements with the provinces and designing the program? How are you going to be able to meet this deadline? The municipalities need to start planning now, since they have to apply on April 1. They have to start planning their projects and they need to know the criteria and some of the areas that you will be considering. How would you expect this to occur, since the time is so tight?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I want to thank you for the question.

First of all, there is no cut. There is no cut. As you know, we'll balance the budget. The 10-year infrastructure plan, the new plan, will be there, and it will be there to support municipalities, provinces, and territories.

As you know, la Fédération canadienne des municipalités has been a partner since the beginning. They know exactly where we are, and we have discussions with them frequently. On November 5 we sent the new agreement for the gas tax fund renewal to the provinces and territories. They already have it in their hands. We're hearing all of the municipal associations across the country ask the provinces and territories to sign it as soon as they can. They've had it in their hands for two weeks.

We have had some new categories, for sure, but the rest is close to the agreement we had in the past. We hope they will sign it quickly. You and I have been involved in municipal politics. It's time for the budget now. They know; they just have to plan it and ask the province to support it. The budget will be done in municipalities from now to the beginning of December. They have time to do it. Now we enjoin the provinces to sign that as soon as they can, respecting the fact that we want to have this money available for the Canadian population for the next construction season.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Since there's no design that is public about this new program, how did the City of Toronto manage to get over $600 million for the subway? What application process did they go through? The application process won't come until April 1, so how did they manage to get approval? Other municipalities are asking how they got the approval. The application forms are not out yet. The program is not yet designed.

Is this funding confirmed, or is it that maybe if it fits later on, on April 1, and once we see the application, perhaps they will get the funding? Is it real or not?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, it's real. It's real, but like we said when the announcements were made, the provincial-territorial component of the Building Canada plan will have money reserved for Ontario, as we will have for other provinces. If they decide that's a priority, this project, for the municipality and the province, at that time we will do it—if that's their own priority. We respect their jurisdictions, municipal and provincial, and if they prioritize that, we will do it. But if they don't, that will be their choice. That's why we have set aside this amount of money. When the total amount will be sent to the province, we will reserve this amount of money. But that has to be a priority for them, both the municipality and the province.

I repeat exactly the same message. Quebec is asking for a new train on the new bridge. If they want to reserve that amount of money, they can do it right now. For the Building Canada infrastructure and national economic development, that's another thing. We can't reserve that now because that will be done on merit. But for this part of the envelope, we can reserve it if it's their own priority.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So the provinces and the municipalities, no matter which province or which municipality, will have to determine that project A is their top priority and B is their second priority. Therefore, they will get their funding accordingly, if it's their top priority. In order for the City of Toronto, for example, in Ontario, to achieve the subway funding, they will need to put it as a top priority in order to qualify for funding. Am I correct in that?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The top or one of their priorities.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

One of their top priorities.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If that fits in their envelope, they will have an amount of money. But they can't expect more than this envelope.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

No, you can't do that.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

But if it's their priority and it's in the envelope and they want to have it—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Speaking about budget envelopes, I know that rural municipalities are very concerned. They want, and New Democrats also want, to see a dedicated small communities component so that their funding is protected, so that they won't get crowded out by big projects that are from big urban centres, because those are billions of dollars.

Will there be a dedicated small communities component so that rural Canada will get their fair share of funding?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I've been the mayor of a small city of 10,000 people. We never had before...our government made the gas tax fund permanent, with a predictable amount of money year after year. Now the small municipalities in the country can plan for 10 years to come because they know how much money they will have in the new Building Canada plan. Large cities want to have their plan, as do small and mid-sized cities, too.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I'm not talking about the gas tax. I'm talking about the Building Canada fund, the grants program.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes. First of all, the tax fund goes to municipalities that set their own priorities. The other part of the program goes with the provinces and territories.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So will there be a dedicated small community component on the grants side?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We work with the provinces and territories, and in this part of the plan, in Building Canada, if you split the gas tax fund and what goes directly to municipalities, what's left.... The parameters are not public now; we're working on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, thank you. Your time has expired.

Mr. McGuinty, you have seven minutes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much, Minister.

Minister, last Tuesday, November 12, a routine inspection revealed a 2 mm crack on the Champlain Bridge's concrete girders. One of the three lanes in the south shore direction was immediately closed and will reopen in only about four weeks. That will cause major traffic congestion issues for the city of Montreal.

January 2014 will mark eight years of your government being in power. Ministerial briefing notes indicate that the government has known since 2006 that the Champlain Bridge had serious issues. Those issues were so serious that, a week before the 2011 electoral campaign, your government sent Senator Larry Smith to make an announcement on the subject. Mr. Smith was appointed to the Senate three days before declaring that he would run as a Conservative candidate in his riding. His comments are still posted on your website. They concern investments and the importance of making progress in the Champlain Bridge file.

I have a number of questions to ask you for the benefit of those who are following this issue. I would like you to write them down and answer them at your convenience.

First, why will the light rail system planned for the bridge only be ready at the same time as the new bridge, which, unless I am mistaken, is to be completed by 2021?

Second, you said that there would be no bridge without a toll. Could you provide the committee and Canadians with the analyses conducted on the potential distributional effects, such as increased traffic on the other non-toll bridges? Have such analyses been carried out?

Finally, why did the government award a contract of over $15 million to a sole-source provider that is not very familiar with the Champlain Bridge file?

I think that Canadians deserve answers to these important questions.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The issues with the bridge did not come to light in 2006, but much earlier. The Liberal government was then in office, and some key ministers were from the Montreal region, but no one did anything.

Since we took office, we have invested $380 million to maintain the current bridge, and we are hard at work on building a new bridge. It is very important to us to respect the jurisdictions in this file. The province has jurisdiction over public transportation and is supposed to make decisions regarding the light rail.

I want to come back to the infrastructure envelope, which was discussed in the previous question. In the last envelope of the Building Canada Fund, your own province of Ontario decided to invest over 70% of the funding in public transportation, while that figure was 9% for Quebec. I am not questioning the choice made by your province, but you cannot have your cake and eat it too. If the province decides to build roads with that money, it will not implement any public transportation initiatives. Any future decisions on public transportation are the responsibility of the province of Quebec, which will be in charge of building the new train's corridor.

We are committed to building the tracks for the new light rail that the province chose. The new bridge will have the railway tracks the train needs. As for the actual train and the company that will build it, as well as the location of stations, the Government of Quebec is responsible for making the relevant decisions. So if the train is not delivered when the bridge is ready, that will have to do with the Government of Quebec, and not the federal government.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So it's Quebec's fault.