Evidence of meeting #31 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aviation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
So, an employee reporting an issue risks reprisals.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
It is very difficult for employees to report a problem without being perceived as trouble-makers. That is what happened to us.
NDP
Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
The situation does not seem as trouble-free as suggested by Tuesday's witnesses, who told us that everything was fine, that there was a culture of safety. According to what you are saying, employees are hesitant to report problems, fearing retaliation.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I am not saying this happens in all companies, but it does happen.
NDP
Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
All right. Thank you.
Tuesday, ICI Radio-Canada published a story about deficiencies in Transport Canada's safety system pertaining to a helicopter crash in the Far North in September 2013. You are quoted several times in the story.
Could you tell us about safety lapses in Transport Canada's safety system with respect to that accident?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
In our opinion, deficiencies noted by Transport Canada as of 2011 had to do with training as well as operational control of aircrafts. I believe these deficiencies were recently addressed. I do not have the details, just the report in which the deficiencies are mentioned, which indicates the problems have existed for a long time.
NDP
NDP
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Yes, you can answer her last little part about training. Just be very brief, please.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
It is a good question. In fact, regulations stipulate what training must involve, and that should be complied with.
However, the problems were not particularly easy to solve. Truthfully, it was the equipment being used that was not compliant with standards.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you, Mr. Slunder.
Ms. Collins, I would like a clarification. You made a comment about random inspections versus—you say the company is notified—and you made the comment that it gives them time to correct a problem. Those may not be the words you used. I guess if you want to take that further, it basically implies that, in between notifications for inspections, companies, through their employees, would go back and forth on safety.
Do you honestly believe that members, say, of Air Canada or WestJet or any other airline, would actually do that for their company? Basically break the rules and then go back and straighten them out just because they heard that an inspection was coming?
To me that seems a little bit hard to believe, but do you want to comment on that?
National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees
I believe that there would be pressure to get things right, to make sure that the right thing is in place.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Is that not a good thing, Ms. Collins? Would that not be a good thing?
National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees
I think it's an opportunity to hide things. That would be my response.
But it is problematic.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
No, I was just asking her for clarification.
Ms. Young, go ahead for five minutes.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Thank you very much, witnesses, for your presentations. As you can imagine, it's been very interesting but confusing, because we've been hearing so much from other witnesses that does not align with what we've been told today. I think that's why you're here—and it's good—to present us with your experience and your information.
My primary question is sort of buried in all of this. Obviously Transport Canada has a role to play. The companies have a role to play, and the workers and the staff have roles to play. We're hearing today from you that these roles are being sort of broken apart or overlooked, or that they are not being carried out as we had been told they were. I think that is a problem, and obviously that's not where we want to be.
I'm just going to ask a couple of quick questions. In your view, should the auditing and inspection functions of Transport Canada work together to achieve the highest level of safety possible in aviation? I think I'm hearing today—and I guess these are yes or no answers—that's not happening.
Maybe I'll just ask each of you, starting with Mr. Chalmers, then Mr. Slunder, and then Ms. Collins.
Mr. Chalmers, did you hear the question?
President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.
Could you read it again, please?
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Should the auditing and inspection functions of Transport Canada work together to achieve the highest level of safety possible in aviation?
President, Pacific Airworthiness Consulting Inc.
They absolutely should. That would make sense.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
It's not just the auditing and inspection functions that are lacking. We also have an enforcement side. When they're auditing and an inspector discovers a problem, enforcement has to step in to do something. We're not seeing enforcement at all anymore.
In fact in our neck of the woods, pilots are bailing out of enforcement as quickly as they can.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
So you're saying that not only do inspections of actual planes not happen on the ground but also that nobody is enforcing any regulations, nor are they enforcing anything that is being found.