Transport Committee on June 12th, 2014

[Laureen Kinney]

It includes them, along with other categories, yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Right. What were once called national audits are in fact, under today's terminology, PVIs. Audits don't relate to SMS; assessments relate to SMS. I just want to be clear about what terminology we're using.

We've heard that the Auditor General's recommendations in aviation 2008 and 2012, the CESB report, are almost entirely substantially complete, except for minor details. We now know better what are the risks, the frequency and type of surveillance that is undertaken by the department, the resources that are necessary in terms of inspectors and audit positions, for capturing the data.... There's planning and undertaking follow-up for compliance, and there's a quality assurance program now in place. Is that fair to say with respect to civil aviation, Ms. Kinney?

[Laureen Kinney]

That's absolutely accurate.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Watson, your first two minutes are up. I understand that you're taking the second one as well.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

No. I have no more questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I have a couple of quick questions.

When the Canadian Federal Pilots Association had a survey completed, the Union of Canadian Transportation Employees remarked on it. I think it was Ms. Collins, if I recall. Part of that survey indicated that 90% of aviation inspectors who completed the survey believe that SMS have prevented the correction of safety problems in a timely fashion, increased the chances of major aviation accidents, and exposed travellers to higher risk.

In light of what you were saying, I wonder if you would have a comment on that or whether you would like to say anything about it.

[Laureen Kinney]

Obviously. I can't comment on a survey that was carried out by other folks, with different parameters, but I can certainly reinforce the point that the International Civil Aviation Organization has accepted and put into standards the requirement to have safety management systems across the world. On the basis of agreement by the world aviation community, the International Maritime Organization has done the same thing.

The international safety management system has been in place, I believe, since 1999, with all countries in the world basically supporting it. It has been implemented. Certainly, from all of our conversations with industry and other partners, we're aware of where the benefits are being shown already. We certainly see that part of the beneficial improvements in the accident rates has been attributable to that, although there certainly are technology issues and things that—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I have one more question and then I think my time will probably be up.

The Air Canada Pilots Association also presented before this committee and said that Transport Canada's oversight of SMS does not meet the International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO, standards. Obviously, I understand that we do have CARs, the aviation regulations, and we have a safety management system that sets targets to identify problems for remedial action to be taken.

Can you comment with respect to that statement?

[Laureen Kinney]

I think it's important to note that the ICAO Safety Oversight Manual sets international standards and applies to transborder operations. That—and I won't necessarily read it all—says:

The surveillance...should be accomplished on a continuing basis, performed at specified times or intervals or conducted in conjunction with the renewal of a licence, certificate or other approval. ICAO publishes guidance.... In the case of—

—various types of operators—

—regardless of the method used for surveillance, all significant aspects of the operator's or organization's procedures and practices should be evaluated and appropriate inspections—

—of different types, clearly, from the previous point—

—conducted at least once in every 12-month period.

When you take the combination of the scheduled program validation inspections, the various types of process inspections that go on relating to particular safety flags or issues that may arise, along with the other types of interventions that we classify as inspections—although they certainly range in their level of detail and intensity—and you apply them across the system, you will find, we believe, that we fully comply with the ICAO standards. That is certainly the approach we take, and we take it very seriously.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much. We're out of time for questioning.

Mr. McGuinty, did you have a point of order.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, following up on today's testimony and questions, which I thought were very productive for us, would it be possible for the analyst or the clerk to follow up with a series of questions?

We put some pretty tough questions to witnesses here in terms of information. I know, for example, Ms. Kinney testified a moment ago something about not being able to tell whether we have unannounced or announced inspections, but my reading of section 4.3 of SUR-001, the staff instruction, says that, in fact, the department is supposed to document this. This is all available in section 4.3.

Maybe it would help us on all sides if we could get a clear distillation of the information that's been requested from the department and then share that with everyone and perhaps get an answer from the department going forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Very good.

With that, Ms. Girard, Ms. Kinney, Mr. Bourdon, and Mr. Eley, thank you very much for being here and participating in our study.

Everyone have a good weekend.

The meeting is adjourned.