Transport Committee on June 12th, 2014

[Martin Eley]

The no-notice ones are not part of the planned inspections in the sense that we plan to do them, but they're not put in the plan in terms of as scheduled. They are enabled during the course of the year, so the ones you're talking about are the planned work.

[Laureen Kinney]

Let me clarify that the way the system records in our national database system does not include the sub-details of whether or not an inspection was announced or not announced, and the different kinds of inspections, some planned or not. We don't have the breakdown in that regard.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Through you, Mr. Chair, can we undertake to get something from these witnesses about...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well, I think they said they would get you what they can. I think she just—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I didn't hear that, Mr. Chair. Maybe you did. Maybe they can tell us that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay.

Could you get whatever information you can as far as Mr. McGuinty's question goes?

[Laureen Kinney]

We can certainly get together a summary of the numbers of types of inspections and the available detail on that, but there are thousands per year. There's a substantial amount of detail that would take some time to get together.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Watson, you have seven minutes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you to our officials for appearing today.

I have just a couple of correction points from Mr. Sullivan. With respect to route planning and analysis, in OT-55, the U.S. standard, the regulator required that the railway companies undertake route planning and analysis. The TSB's recommendation—and I will read it—is consistent with what the NTSB said, which is, “The Department of Transport set stringent criteria for the operation of trains carrying dangerous goods, and require railway companies to conduct route planning and analysis as well as perform periodic risk assessments to ensure that risk control measures work.”

The requirement by the TSB was that the railway companies conduct route planning and analysis. Mr. Sullivan suggested at the table that the TSB recommendation was that Transport Canada conduct route planning and analysis, and that's not correct.

With respect to the—

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

It's not a debatable item—

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Sullivan, on a point of order.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I just want to correct the record. That isn't what I said.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That's a debate.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I did say that it was railroads.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You two can argue about that.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That's a debate; that's not a point of order anyway.

May I have the floor back, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have the floor.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

With respect to the statistics, I'm holding the Transportation Safety Board of Canada's report.

They say that there has been a significant downward trend in accident rates, the number of accidents per 100,000 flying hours, in the last decade, from 7.0 in 2002 to 5.7 in 2011. That's the last 10-year period they report on. We'll wait and see what the updates are.

It's one thing to selectively cherry-pick a couple of statistics, but even the accident rates in 2013 are lower than 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and I could go on, Chair.

To get back to our witnesses and the matter at hand today, one of the reasons we asked Transport officials to return is that in response to several reports of the Auditor General, Transport Canada has made very specific commitments associated with very specific timelines on how they will respond. These commitments were in response to the Auditor General's reports in 2008 and 2012 on aviation, to the 2011 report from the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, and most recently to the Auditor General’s report on rail sector in his 2013 report. This committee shares the consensus that it should be a point of accountability to ensure that Transport Canada, in fact, is meeting its obligations that it stated in the report and that there's no slippage on the part of Transport Canada officials.

Now to the reports. In the 2008 report of the Auditor General of Canada, chapter 3, “Oversight of Air Transportation Safety”, I'm looking at the appendix, and there are nine recommendations. How many of those have been fulfilled by Transport Canada officials?

[Laureen Kinney]

Eight of them are complete, and one has a small element still remaining to be completed.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Which one is that?

[Laureen Kinney]

That is the last one, where the recommendation was to integrate all of our sources of safety information. This required a significant amount of planning of integration databases, etc. That work has been nearly completed. We've incorporated a vast array of our safety data information systems, and one element of the project is still remaining. Bird strike information and one other database are still to be integrated, and that will be occurring over the next year or two.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Approximately how many databases of separate information, and please give me even a ballpark if you don't have the specific number, Ms. Kinney, that Transport Canada accumulates have to be integrated so that inspectors and managers and others can meaningfully use that data?

[Laureen Kinney]

There are some 300-plus databases within civil aviation, and they're used for different purposes. They arose from that previous approach where new groups were very divided and they kept their own records. In terms of the ones that are being incorporated now, there are close to 10 particular databases that are of critical importance that are being integrated.