Transport Committee on Oct. 7th, 2014

[Anne Legars]

The IMO doesn't audit. The IMO sets standards and conventions. The ones who audit regularly are the classification societies. This is also done by the flag state, and you have inspections at the ports where the inspectors as a part of port state control will check that you have everything in order.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Who are they inspected by? Who inspects and audits the SMSs?

[Anne Legars]

The real audit is made according to the flag state to ensure it's being coordinated.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So if the ship is flagged in Liberia, is it the Liberian government that's responsible for auditing and inspecting the ship?

[Anne Legars]

To make sure that it's being done, it is. That's why we have the port state inspections, because, you know, it is another pair of eyes in all the countries of the world that have no direct interest in the well-being of the shipowner in question. If you click on the link in the appendix that was forwarded to the clerk, when you see the various reports of Paris MOU, Tokyo MOU, U.S. Coast Guard, and Transport Canada ports, you will see, I would say, the record and the ranking and the benchmarking of the various flags. Some flags are more serious than others in terms of targeting, because when you inspect ships, basically you pick and choose the ones that will be priority for inspection, so this comes into the mix. So you have various white lists, grey lists, and black lists of ships depending on the MOUs.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, I got that.

I want to go to Mr. Buy for a second. Mr. Buy, the Canadian Ferry Operators Association is proceeding with its own voluntary SMS system. Is that correct?

[Serge Buy]

That's correct.

First of all, I'll say that we have no ships registered in Liberia. All of them are registered in Canada, thank God, at this point.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So you have no SMS system?

[Serge Buy]

No, we do have an SMS system, a voluntary system for operators. They are audited by the classification societies.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Is that a government body?

[Serge Buy]

No, it's a government-designated body. It's for international companies.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

They're not, for example, Canadian regulators or inspectors—

[Serge Buy]

No, they're regulated by the Canadian government and designated by it to audit the safety management system when it comes. We also have Transport Canada inspectors.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

To both of you very quickly, I always like to turn to the budget numbers because the money never lies. Between 2011-12 and 2012-13, marine safety in Canada has been cut by 25%. A quarter of all funding for marine safety has been cut, from $75.6 million to $56.5 million. So here's the question. Given that we've had a quarter of the funding cut for marine safety in Canada by the federal government, can you help us understand? Ms. Legars, do you think that your overall regulation by Transport Canada is satisfactory? Do you think that there are est-ce qu'il y a des lacunes, or places where we need to improve, given that we've seen a 25% cut?

[Anne Legars]

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I have two things to raise.

The first one is that enforcement is a collective game in terms of ocean shipping. Under these MOUs all the countries that are part of the MOUs have a certain target to reach. I don't know if I remember, but I think that under the Paris MOU Canada had 5% of enforcement effort to do for the enforcement of all these fleets that cover this common region. That's an international commitment that they have to do, and it's reported, and blah, blah, blah. That's one element of our response.

The second one is that Canada has its own priorities. For example, under the Canada program every tanker has to be inspected for its first voyage in Canada and then at least once every year. Some funds have been frozen for that as part of the post tanker panel decision. The minister made a commitment that this money will remain.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I don't understand something. It's plain common sense. You told me earlier that shipping traffic is up and increasing and the size of ships are increasing, but we've had a 25% reduction in overall spending on marine safety. How do Canadians square that?

[Anne Legars]

I don't know how they square it. The only thing I can say is that they have to do it under international commitments. They have no choice but to carry out the number of inspections they have undertaken to do. That's how it works. So I don't know how they square it, but just know that it's done.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

What's my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have 10 seconds.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Buy, do you want to comment on that?

[Serge Buy]

I won't get into the debate on whether the 25% has resulted in fewer inspections or anything else. There may be efficiencies that were found and different things. That's for the government to debate and to argue.

What I can tell you is that at this point we believe that Transport Canada is doing an adequate job on inspections. We're a little bit concerned about the obligation of certain authorities to the classification societies for smaller vessels, which is putting some strains on the smaller ferry operators. But I think in general the government has done an adequate job in the inspection on board ferries. I can speak in terms of ferries and I think they have done an adequate job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Buy.

We now move to Mr. Watson, for seven minutes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing.

Ms. Legars, I'll start with you. With the global supply chain for handling goods, especially dangerous goods, there are a lot of hands that touch on or have an interaction with dangerous goods cargo. Can you walk us through, if possible, the various stages of who would touch upon these goods, and whom they report to, and whom they're regulated by, whether that's a consigner or the handlers and the stevedores in port who move the cargo—those who have carriage of the ship? Can you walk us through that a little bit so we understand at which point who is regulated by whom and who has oversight of it all?

[Anne Legars]

I will try to be brief. Everything that we—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

If it's a complex issue, you could submit to the committee in writing afterward. That would be helpful.