Transport Committee on Oct. 28th, 2014

[Capt John Chomniak]

I fully agree with the use of the SMS. I, being in the industry for so many years, believe in it. It's just in the process. Probably the other biggest thing that we have is the lines of communication we have with Transport Canada and the inspection regime.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Just before I move on, I'll ask you one further question. You said, if I recall correctly, that some of the regulations might bring closure to some of your members. Do you have a specific regulation in mind that you were referring to?

[Capt John Chomniak]

On that I could pass you to Mr. Duhamel who could answer that question much better than myself.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Are you able to identify what he was talking about or—

[Capt Dan Duhamel]

There are quite a few regulations that have come out in the last several years that have really not been looked at by the regulators to see how it would affect the industry. There are a lot of regulations that have come out that affect the operators to the degree where they're putting them out of business. Common sense doesn't seem to prevail anymore. It seems like, and we're looking at it from our end of the industry, the right questions weren't asked. They do have CMAC, which is the Marine Advisory Council, where the industry gets to voice their concerns. It doesn't seem to be working.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

But you're not pointing your finger at any particular one or two.

[Capt Dan Duhamel]

There's a whole bunch. But I've got one in particular if you want.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Sure.

[Capt Dan Duhamel]

The regulation where it's required that the time aboard needed to keep your certificate once you've got your certificate as captain, mate, whatever. The time requirement at present is a total of 360 days over a five-year period or a continuous 90 days in the last year. This is a problem within our inland domestic industry. Our season runs approximately 120 days. If you have a past employee who holds a certificate of competency for either captain or mate, and now has a full-time job but still would like to work part-time within the industry and they want to make themselves available when needed.... Most tours are on a short fixed route and don't change, as in our case on the Rideau Canal trip. It's only five kilometres. The route, the equipment, are always the same.

This is the same for our Ottawa River cruise. Each year, when an employee returns, they are refamiliarized with the safety features of the vessels and are required to perform all the drills as required, using the fire equipment as well as the bilge evacuation and evacuating passengers. This said, because they are available only part-time, they may only work a handful of times over the course of the season. Therefore they are not able to get the required time needed to keep up their certificates.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So it's just a matter very specific to you. It's a question of time.

[Capt Dan Duhamel]

It's a regulation. It's in the regulations. It really doesn't make sense.

There's another one, lightship surveys. With the lightship surveys, every year an inspector will come and make you sign a piece of paper. Have you done any major changes to your vessels? No. So every five years you're supposed to do a lightship survey. In that lightship survey, they take measurements and they have a marine architect, who we, the mom-and-pop guys, have to pay for. If there seems to be a difference of only 2% in the weight of the vessel, then you have to redo your stability tests. I spent $13,000 and I got all my tests completed and then it was another $8,000. So it was 13 and 8, do the math, to have my boats redo their stability tests.

My boats are 22 years old. We've never done any changes to them whatsoever.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Just to interrupt, because I have other questions to ask and I know where you're going, I get your point. Measuring for the sake of regulation is not a matter of safety.

[Capt Dan Duhamel]

Okay. The point is while they were measuring, when they were redoing the measuring of the boat, the marine architect who was on hand, who I was paying, turned to the inspector and he said, “I could measure this boat three times and come up with three different answers.” The Transport Canada guy said, “Yeah, you're right.”

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Yes, I appreciate that. Good point. You're saying if we're going to have regulations, let's make sure they enhance safety.

I want to move to Mr. Lewis-Manning. I guess you support safety management systems fairly significantly and I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

This is the last question.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

All right. I'll get right to the point.

How are you able to create a culture within your organization whereby the employees actively contribute to the safety management system, and in such a way that it becomes a living document and not a stagnant regulation that maybe has little to do with safety, so that it actually enhances safety?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

Would it be overly simplistic to say leadership? It really is leadership. It has to be part of a company's corporate culture from the top down. It has to be demanded and you have to empower people and hold them accountable. I know that our members have that corporate culture because it is their competitive advantage. Without it, you're not in business.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Are your employees very actively involved, that you know?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

Absolutely. They have to be because the masters of our vessels are operating in the most pristine environments in this country, potentially the world. So they have to. It's good business to be safe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Yurdiga for seven minutes.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning and thank you for coming.

It's very important we all participate in this to make our Canadian waters safe and also for people working on our various vessels. Everybody's concerned about cost and being competitive. Would the implementation of an audited or certified SMS hinder the competitiveness of short sea shipping against American shipping companies? Is there a disadvantage? We all understand the advantage of being safe. Is there a competitive disadvantage?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

I think that's probably directed at me.

That cost is basically a sunk cost because we've been doing it for a long time. We're competitive. So is it a disincentive? No.

It's as simple as it can be. There's no place to cut corners on safety. Regulations demand it and we enhance it with voluntary safety management systems.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Captain Chomniak, to which pooled liability funds do your members have access in case of an accident involving a release of a dangerous good, and to what extent do your members self-insure?

[Capt John Chomniak]

The transportation of any dangerous goods only comes into play with any of the short-run ferries that we operate within the association, and all of them are provincially run.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you.

I'll address this to Captain Chomniak once again. Which aspect of a short operation poses the greatest risk to the safety or a person and/or property, and what legislation provisions govern the safety of Canadian port authorities operations?