Evidence of meeting #36 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vessels.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
I understand, based on what you are saying today too, though, it's not just the fact that you have a very simple and direct system that is excellent but also that you appear to have a very strong and established safety culture within your green safety—
President, Paul's Boat Lines, Canadian Passenger Vessel Association
That's a culture that's been developing. We formed our association in 1977. I was one of the original founders of the CPVA, and it was to educate, because we're carrying the most valuable cargo of all—humans. We formed this association so we could better educate ourselves and at the same time try to work along with some of the regulators, because a lot of our regulators—and this has been shown time and time again—have a blue water mentality. We're domestic.
They've made us carry some equipment on board our vessels. I'll just name something—parachute flares. I could have burned down the city of Ottawa, but I had to fight for two weeks with our regulator, asking why I needed parachute flares on my boats in Ottawa. If I use one, they burn right to the ground. I'm going through the Rideau Canal and the narrows and I've got those beautiful homes on both sides of the canal. Why would I even want to use a flare? So, they said that a hand-held flare was fine. But I have to go for a board decision every year.
Like I said, common sense isn't necessarily common, and it's too generic.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Okay, maybe we can flag this, because this is actually excellent. These are the kinds of examples we'd be very interested—
President, Paul's Boat Lines, Canadian Passenger Vessel Association
Well, it's the same thing. I have a question from Ms. Morin about increased traffic with an SMS. Well, you know what? We have rules of the road for the Great Lakes, and we have our collision regulations, and every operator on board a commercial vessel has to know those rules of the road. We're talking duplication again.
Conservative
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Okay. You can submit all this in writing, please. Submit your low-hanging fruit ideas to us in writing.
Thank you very much.
Conservative
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, of course, to our witnesses for participating in hearings regarding the marine mode, and as we're looking at how, if possible, to improve safety management systems and the transportation of dangerous goods regime in Canada.
Before I ask some questions, I just want to clarify some details from some questioning earlier by Mr. McGuinty, related to what he mis-characterized as spending cuts in marine safety. I've done some looking at this. What he calls cuts, 80% of the number he quotes are actually efficiencies, or money saved and not spent, because they got more efficient in how they deliver in the back office. Things like reducing travel expenses for bureaucrats and reducing professional services costs are not decreases in the safety regime spending. Also, of the other 20%, we have transfers out of the department to other departments, so there is an increase in other departmental budgets for functions like environmental assessment responsibilities. It's hardly a reduction in safety. I just felt it was important to have the proper characterization, that what they did was 80% savings, delivering greater value for the service, and almost all of the other 20% ending up being increases in other departmental budgets. That's just for the public record.
Turning to the matter at hand, can we get some clarification. By what class do we divide our inspection regime here? If I understand it correctly, if ships are 24 metres and above there's a particular regime, or you can obtain your inspection through classification societies. What happens below that particular threshold?
President, Canadian Passenger Vessel Association
The size of the vessel doesn't matter. You can still ask a classification society to opt in. But it's the classification society that has the ability to say, thank you for thinking of us, however, we don't like what you have, so there are four more down the road, you can go and ask them.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Would you be recommending that they be compelled to take on additional sized vessels in their inspections?
President, Canadian Passenger Vessel Association
The problem is that their charters, from wherever their headquarters are, stipulate who they can and cannot take in as members.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I presume, if we impose by way of regulation, then what they should be inspecting is within Canada.
I'm simply asking the question whether that's a route to go or not.
President, Canadian Passenger Vessel Association
I think Captain Nelson wanted to weigh in on that.
President, Council of Marine Carriers
Thank you. My industry consists largely of vessels less than 24 metres. We have quite a few vessels over that, but most vessels are less than 24 metres. Transport Canada implemented a program called the blue decal program, which is largely self-reporting and inspected by Transport Canada. They do visit occasional vessels that have been issued a blue decal, but it's not a complete system. This is where SMS, an appropriate one to the size of the company and the vessels and their operation, would be most beneficial.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
When you say “appropriate to the size of the vessel”, are you suggesting that it be not as comprehensive or not have what might be the imposed requirements on a mandatory SMS for a larger size?
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
What essential items would you have in an SMS for a smaller vessel?
President, Council of Marine Carriers
SMS is a system that covers the safe operations of the vessel and of the company. That's from the office, to the wheelhouse and maintenance yard, to the engine room. It covers the whole operation. Only elements within the actual operation of that vessel need be covered in an SMS. So it would be safe work in practices. We have to remember that all SMS systems then fold in the appropriate regulations, so obviously those vessels are going to have to comply with Transport Canada's regulations, in addition to anything the SMS requires.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
We essentially have a hybrid system. If you're under the classification society, is that a system where you report to them? Of course if you're not under that system, Transport Canada somehow has to report to you. I imagine that's a difficult system to try to master considering both the diversity and the size of vessels, and the broad geography. Is there a better way to do this?
President, Council of Marine Carriers
I think there is and it would help to go into some detail in this conversation, which I don't think you have time for.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Can you do it by way of written submission to the committee through the chair?
President, Council of Marine Carriers
Quickly, yes. We did put in a written proposal to Transport Canada and we can certainly dust that off and hand it into the committee.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
We do have a couple of minutes left.
Mr. Nelson, the name of your organization implies that all marine operations and ships come under you. We've got the Canadian Passenger Vessel Association here. We've had the Canadian Ferry Operators Association and the Canadian Shipowners Association. Can you explain exactly, give me some examples, who your members are, or do they encompass all of them?