Transport Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

So it's inspection with—

[Luc Bourdon]

Either by hot box detector dragging equipment or by an individual, and if they want to avoid that, it's 15 miles an hour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan. Your time has expired.

Mr. Toet for five minutes.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up a little further on the path Mr. Albrecht was going down at the beginning. There's a very interesting graph on page 7 of the Library of Parliament's briefing document we received, and I'm just wondering if you can help me understand the attribution.

In 2005 there were about 31 or 32 main track derailments and seven accidents with dangerous goods releases. In 2012 we were down to about six main track derailments and about two to three accidents with dangerous goods releases. So we had fewer main track derailments than we had accidents with release of dangerous goods back in 2005.

I'm just wondering if there's anything that any of the officials would attribute that change to. What would you look at to say why we had this? It's obviously a good trend, but what would you attribute that to?

[Gerard McDonald]

We'd like to think we played some small part in that, but we're only one player in the system. I feel it's certainly a more diligent focus on safety. The fact that we have introduced safety management systems hopefully has pushed the safety culture further down into the company. And I think companies are realizing that safety is just plain good business.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

When you say “more diligent focus on safety”, is that from Transport Canada's perspective, or are you saying that's right across the board from companies also?

[Gerard McDonald]

Companies are paying greater attention to safety now than they have in the past. We certainly noticed a marked change in the culture probably post the Railway Safety Act review. In the mid-2000s there was a spate of accidents that caused a great degree of concern.

We had additional emphasis on safety management systems after that. The Railway Safety Act review took place, so I think companies sat up and took note that it was in their own best interests to improve their safety performance as well.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. McDonald, in your opening remarks you said that proper classification is a key, and I think Ms. Dagenais also made that comment at the beginning of her presentation. How does Transport Canada verify that companies are classifying their goods properly. If it's such a key component, it obviously has to be a key thing that Transport Canada is looking at all the time too.

[Marie-France Dagenais]

We use inspection. Every time we go and inspect a facility—or a shipper, I should say, because the obligation is on the shipper and the importer to properly classify—we have inspections. We have chemists. My advisors at CANUTEC are actually trained chemists who can look at how these tests are done.

The testing is done following the UN recommendations. It's part of our regulations. It's all indicated in part II of our regulations, and it determines and indicates very specifically how testing can and should be done in relation to what the United Nations has recommended as proper testing and classification.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

What happens if you find somebody improperly classifying or labelling a product?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

There are tools of enforcement offered to us: we can ticket; we can give direction to remedy and to deal with non-compliance; and we can also prosecute.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

So there are financial penalties as well as legal penalties?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

There are financial penalties.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Can you share with us how many companies may have faced these types of sanctions in the last number of years?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

We haven't faced a lot of classification issues in the last couple of years.

I guess crude petroleum is a different matter because it comes from the soil. It's a natural product, I should say, so it's different from classifying chlorine. That's why we have decided to target our inspection more on crude petroleum classification.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You're saying there aren't that many, but if they have faced sanctions, is that something the public would know about? Is that public knowledge?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

It's part of the criminal system. Once charges are laid and they're found guilty, the findings are public.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Can you give me any sense, by mode of transport, where sanctions would have been applied—marine, air, or rail?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

In the past year we have issued approximately 50 tickets under the Contraventions Act. Prosecution is a longer process. In the past two or three years, we've had about five per year.

As I say, it depends on the type of infraction. We usually prosecute when fatalities or injuries are involved, and mostly when the means of containment are not appropriate, because we believe that classification is important. If the means of containment are deficient, that's where the major infraction lies, because that means transport afterwards will be dangerous.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

But you can't give me any sense of what modes of transport you've had to apply these sanctions to?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

I can't right now, but if you want, I can get back to you.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Yes, I would appreciate receiving that information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I'm going to have to cut you off there, Mr. Toet.

We'll move to Madame Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I represent the riding of Hochelaga, in Montreal, where the Port of Montreal is located. The port is so large that it covers three ridings. Last night, the port director told me that it was the largest port in the western world. There is one larger, in Asia apparently.

Trucks, boats and trains arrive at the large Port of Montreal which, incidentally, is growing. They can all stay there for a few days, depending on the goods they are transporting.

After the Lac Mégantic accident, citizens seeing all this arrive have some concerns. They know that we are going to talk about it today. What are the major issues for a large intermodal port? What can I tell them? I understand their fears because I was affected by the Mississauga train derailment. I was evacuated for two weeks. We were lucky because we only had to be evacuated. What should I tell Canadians? What are the main issues for a place like that where there are so many diverse activities or where a number of dangerous materials are involved?

[Gerard McDonald]

Mr. Chair, I'll answer the question in a bit of a general manner, because I don't know the specifics of the port of Montreal itself. Maybe my colleague might be able to add some colour to my answer.

In terms of the security of ports, the Government of Canada has invested a large sum of money in promoting and augmenting the security at our port system. So a port like the port of Montreal would have security fencing all around it, and anything that's within the port facility would be protected by security fencing. The government has also invested a large amount in recent years in helping ports install things like security cameras to ensure that any goods that are there are constantly monitored. And then we get back to the more traditional inspection we do with respect to the transshipment of any dangerous goods that may be coming in to the port. They would be subject to the inspection we have under the transportation of dangerous goods program.

My colleague, Mr. Kennedy, may have something to add in that regard.