Transport Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[Marie-France Dagenais]

As I indicated, the latest version of the standard, which is basically thicker steel, extra protection with the head shields, will be coming into force or be published in December. Right now we are already working with our U.S. counterparts, with manufacturing facilities, with producers, with interest groups, to look at a new version of the tank cars.

There is actually a meeting scheduled in January. We meet twice a year and we look at the different components, trying to find ways of improving the standards. As I said, it's on a consensus basis, so sometimes it takes longer, but we try to achieve the work within four to five years.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Is that consensus with various stakeholders or with the U.S., or both?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

With everyone.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay. Is the U.S. on the same five-year cycle?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

They are on the same five-year cycle. Right now we have set meetings with them, specifically to ensure that there's progress in terms of developing the new standard.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Do the consultations take place between those five-year periods? Given the increase in rail transportation, I'm wondering if five years is frequent enough.

[Marie-France Dagenais]

It may change. We are working with our American counterparts. The way they regulate is to have a proposed advanced rule-making notice. That came out in the fall. The Association of American Railroads commented on it, and we are working with them to look at the proposals, what could be achieved in terms of research to ensure that the next generation of those tank cars meet the safety needs of dangerous goods transport.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you for clarifying that.

Our Minister of Transport has said very clearly that she wants the rail safety regime to be similar to the “world-class tanker safety system”. Could you elaborate on that?

[Gerard McDonald]

When we talk about the world-class tanker safety system, there are three elements that we feel any good response and prevention system should have. The first of those three elements is prevention. You don't want the accident to take place, so what can you do as an organization or as a government to ensure that accidents don't take place? That includes more effective regulation. That includes more effective inspection and other types of surveillance. On the marine side, we do aerial surveillance for oil spills.

The second element is response. If an accident does take place, how do we ensure that the responders are ready, that they're within a proximity that is going to make a difference, that they have the right information in order to be able to respond effectively to whatever type of event might take place?

The third element of what we call a world-class regime is liability and compensation. If, God forbid, something does happen, how do we ensure that those who are affected by it are effectively recompensed for what took place? We have a fundamental principle that we pursue, which is that the polluter should pay. It shouldn't be borne on the backs of taxpayers. Those who were shipping or transporting the goods should be held accountable for whatever has taken place.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

When you say that polluters should pay, is that through the payment of liabilities? Is that through the payment of fines?

[Gerard McDonald]

Again, it varies from mode to mode, but as the government indicated in their Speech from the Throne, that's something they want to look at, certainly on the rail side. It can take various forms, from insurance to funds, to what have you.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

As a segue from that, on page 9 of the presentation you indicate that a number of tools are used to enforce compliance, including issuing directions to remedy non-compliance. You say, “These include public awareness, detentions, tickets and prosecutions.”

Could you elaborate, please, on these various mechanisms for enforcement?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

The way the program works is that we have a severity index. Non-compliance can go from having missing information on a shipping document to missing a placard on the use of containments. For example, according to the regulation, you need to have a placard on each side of these containments. If there's one missing, that's non-compliance: lack of training of your employees.

Depending on the type of non-compliance, the tools vary. The severity will indicate prosecution at the more severe stage. At the lowest stage, you can talk about making sure that you issue a direction saying to please remedy the non-compliance, to please stop doing something, or to please do something. Those are directions. Then we can issue tickets under the Contraventions Act if we believe there has been a contravention and that a tool would be necessary to ensure compliance in the future.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

On raising—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Very quickly, Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

How do you raise public awareness?

[Marie-France Dagenais]

We have different tools. We issue a publication. We have enforcement bulletins. What we have on our website we distribute to industry. We go to association meetings. There are a lot of tools that we use to ensure our work....

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

That's the end of the first round. We have enough time left to give each party a five-minute round.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Earlier on, you said that crude oil is not part of the dangerous goods act. Are you planning to change that? It's sort of surprising. I guess the act is from 1992. Is that why it hasn't been updated?

[Gerard McDonald]

What's subject to an ERAP is something we constantly look at. As we gain new information, we look at what goods should be ERAPable, as we say. Given the events at Lac-Mégantic and the concerns over certain types of crude, like Bakken, from the Bakken fields, that is something we will be looking at, yes.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Do you have a sense of a timeline on when you might be making the change? For example, for the video recorder on locomotive cabs, you have been looking at it for 13 years and you still haven't made it mandatory. So on whether crude would be included or not, you could be considering it for the next 10 years.

Do you have a timeline as to when you might be making a decision?

[Gerard McDonald]

We'll be looking at that over the course of the next year, that among other regulatory developments; we're on an accelerated time scale.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Are Canadians to expect a new Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act that might come forward in 2015 or...?

[Gerard McDonald]

No, we wouldn't foresee...although I can't preclude that. That wouldn't be my decision to bring in a new act. But the solutions we're looking at now would be regulatory solutions within the current legislative construct.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Right, but it will still take you at least a year before you can make that decision?