Transport Committee on March 24th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Our meeting today is split up into two segments.

In the first segment we have Ms. Bateman, MP, to answer questions and explain a little bit about her private member's bill, Bill C-627, an act to amend the Railway Safety Act, safety of persons and property.

Ms. Bateman, welcome to the committee and thanks for being here.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to speak with you today.

I hope to answer any questions that you may have regarding my private member's bill, Bill C-627, an act to amend the Railway Safety Act, safety of persons and property.

Mr. Chair, I am very happy to have the opportunity to speak to you today about my bill, Bill C-627, and of course, to answer the questions of the members of the committee.

As you know, the security of transportation in general and rail safety in particular is one of the priorities of our government.

The recent catastrophe of Lac-Mégantic and the recent tragedy in northern Ontario underlines and reminds us one more time of the necessity to have a secure and safe rail system and to improve the supervision and control of the rail operations as a whole.

As I was saying, the recent catastrophes underline and remind us one more time of the necessity to have a secure and safe rail system and to improve the supervision and control of rail operations.

I would like to highlight the excellent work of your committee, Mr. Chair, and the leadership of the Minister of Transport, Minister Raitt, who reacted in such an efficient and effective way to gaps identified in the system.

I have found another gap that I would like to fill.

Indeed, the current legislation does not allow the minister or rail crossing inspectors to close a rail crossing when it presents a risk for pedestrians, cyclists, persons in wheelchairs, or vehicles.

My private member's bill will improve that situation for the entire population.

I have heard loud and clear from my constituents that rail safety is an issue that matters to them. As a servant of Winnipeg South Centre, I share in this vision of wanting to see our crossings safe, whether for a child riding a bike, a senior in a wheelchair, or any vehicle.

Rail crossings criss-cross my riding and the safety of them can be enhanced. That's why I chose to use my private member's bill to achieve greater rail safety in my constituency with a happy consequence that all Canadians across this great country will be safer and more secure because of my bill.

My bill is about prevention and proposes to enhance the Railway Safety Act by seeking to give additional powers to the Minister of Transport, so she may intervene when required in order to better ensure the safety of citizens, property, and communities. Additionally, this proposed legislation seeks to empower railway safety inspectors, so they may quickly intervene to restrict the use of unsafe works and equipment, and to forbid or restrict the use of unsafe crossing works and road crossings.

My bill is about prevention and its objective is to solve problems before they occur. The notification provisions propose to improve the Railway Safety Act by seeking to give additional powers to the Minister of Transport, so that she may intervene when required in order to better ensure the safety of citizens, property and communities.

Additionally, this proposed legislation seeks to empower inspectors to quickly intervene to stop the use of unsafe crossing works and equipment, and to forbid or restrict the use of unsafe crossing works and road crossings.

I'm sure we will go into a discussion about the details later, but what I propose is that the minister and her inspectors have the power to shut down a railway crossing, if necessary, if the safety and security of any Canadian is at risk.

I hope all parties support me on this bill.

I thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for your kind attention and it will now be my pleasure to answer any questions you and your colleagues may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Mai.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ms. Bateman, for being here and for bringing your private member's bill.

We do have issues sometimes, when private members' bills are brought forward, especially when we deal with rail safety as you know. You mentioned that it's complicated, but it's also very important for Canadians.

Were government officials consulted with regard to your bill?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, absolutely. In fact, I consulted widely on this bill not only with government officials, not only with the minister herself, not only with organizations such as CN but also with the teamsters. I found that the teamsters are very supportive of this bill.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Have you seen or have you read Bill C-52, which was brought forth by the government regarding rail safety?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

You know, I don't have them all by memory. I have started. I'm about three-quarters of the way through.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

In Bill C-52, which we haven't debated yet, there are provisions that actually deal with your bill. They actually repeal what your bill is bringing forward. I'll give you the example of subclause 39(1). It states:

39. (1) Subsections (2) to (7) apply if Bill C-627, introduced in the 2nd session of the 41st Parliament

Then it states:

If subsection 25(1) of this Act comes into force before section 2 of the other Act, then

(a) that section 2 is deemed never to have come into force and is repealed;

So we're talking about your section.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Does it mention C-627?

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Actually, yes.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Wow, I'm honoured.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

It makes it more complicated for us, when we look at rail safety, when you bring in something where you said you consulted with the government, but then the government actually repeals what.... Now if your bill goes forward, we have to repeal your provision.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I defer to the officials of the Ministry of Transport on the details of the upcoming bill, but the motivation of my bill was what happened in my riding. I'm sure you feel the same about yours.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

That's why I understand your motivation. I understand that you want to protect your constituents and people across Canada, obviously.

When there's a private members' bill that deals with something where the government actually has to review the whole regulatory regime, when we start bringing pieces.... We've seen that happen with the Conservatives with the Criminal Code, for instance, where we had a lot of private members' bills dealing with the code.

When we add everything up, it makes it even more confusing. We have a bill coming from the government that is actually repealing what you're bringing forward and without you even knowing what the bill from the government brings.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It presumes that this is going to pass, so I thank you in advance for that. It would actually be wonderful if it did pass.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Well, it doesn't presume. It says if it passes, because right now we're wondering whether or not Bill C-52 from the government is going to become law.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I can't speak to the government bill, because I'm not the minister and I'm not the officials. I am not the deputy minister. But what I can speak to is that this is a bill worthy of your support, because this is about rail safety in all of our communities.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I understand. I just raised that concern.

Also, if you look at your bill, in the Railway Safety Act subsection 4(4) in the definition of safe railway operations already includes safety of persons and property. You've included that in the bill.

Can you tell us why you think that definition wasn't sufficient?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I worked very closely with the minister's officials, and as you know, when you do a private member's bill you're assisted by a lawyer in the House of Commons to develop the proper and appropriate terminology. I'm a chartered accountant, not a lawyer, so I'm not going to speak to the legalese, but I will say that I told them very clearly what my intention was.

In 2007 we had a lady in a motorized wheelchair crossing one—

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

When there's an amendment to a bill or to a definition or something is being added, we have to understand why it's being added, and why—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Hopefully this will explain that.

There was a lady whose motorized wheelchair got trapped in the rail crossing. Had it not been for a good Samaritan who pulled her to safety while the train was coming, she would not be here with us today.

That was a pretty traumatic thing that happened in my riding. It was actually before I was the member of Parliament. Based on that explanation, the lawyer at the House of Commons indicated that we would have to have the safety of persons and property.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I don't know if you realize that the definition of safe railway operations in subsection 4(4) of the act already includes the safety of persons and property, which is something—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

When I presented this, and when I asked ministry personnel if they could shut a crossing, the ministry advised me that it was absolutely impossible under the current legislation. It cannot do it. The minister doesn't have that authority, and neither do the safety—

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I think you're referring to another provision of your bill. We're going to debate clause by clause, and I'm trying to understand what has been added and why it has been added. That's why I was raising some concerns about things that are being added in a private member's bill but without understanding the whole impact.

That was my question to you. Why add that section on the definition when actually that portion already exists in the other part of the bill?

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. McGuinty, for seven minutes.