Transport Committee on June 11th, 2015

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Thank you very much, Mr. Komarnicki. Your time is up.

If my colleagues will accept this, I'll take the next round, even though I'm the chair. No one objects? Okay.

Just to follow up on what Mr. Komarnicki raised about reports for employees, you mentioned, Ms. Kinney, that employees are able to report to Transport Canada. Has a 1-800 number been set up so that employees know where to call? I think that was raised before. If not, where are we at?

[Laureen Kinney]

Yes, this is something that has come up in the past. It's been discussed at some length. What exists right now is Securitas, which is a confidential reporting system to the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. That system has been in place for a considerable length of time. We feel that it does meet a considerable part of the needs. There will be this additional requirement in the safety management system regulations to have a process internally to the company to address the issues we've just spoken about.

We certainly would respond, and do respond, to any informal reports that come to us. It's not evident what we would be using a 1-800 number, separately from the existing processes, to do.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Thank you very much.

Earlier, Mr. Watson asked a question about administrative penalties, which only came into force in April 2015.

Can you tell us whether those penalties, which were a long time coming, will be made public? Mr. Watson also talked about the process as a whole. Will it be made public?

[Laureen Kinney]

If I may turn to the initial part of that, yes, when we do take enforcement action of that nature or of any significant nature, that will be published on our website. It will be open to the public.

I would have to defer to Ms. Diogo on what level of detail would be published automatically or what processes might be used if people wanted more details.

[Brigitte Diogo]

Currently we envisage having the amount and the name of the company posted on the website.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

If the penalty amount is published initially and then—correct me if I'm wrong—the Minister of Transport uses his power to reduce the amount, will it be published?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Under the regulations, only an enforcement officer can issue a penalty. So a penalty is not issued by the minister. The amount cannot be modified by the minister or by anyone else once the penalty has been issued.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Okay. If I understand correctly, once a penalty is issued, an officer can later change the amount.

Would that change be made public?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Companies can go to court, but once the penalty has been issued, it is final. The final decision is published.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

You said that, at Transport Canada, you assessed risk based on the necessary inspectors or auditors according to the changes.

Do you think the increase in the transportation of dangerous goods—more specifically oil—means that Transport Canada needs more inspectors or a bigger budget?

[Laureen Kinney]

In terms of the staff on the transportation of dangerous goods side or the number of oversight personnel, as of last year on April 1—let me just check the numbers—we were at 59 oversight personnel in transportation of dangerous goods, and as of April 1, 2015, we were at 98 oversight personnel, which includes inspectors. As I said, we have increased the number within rail safety, so those numbers have been adjusted.

If I may, Mr. Chair, just to correct the record, I spoke earlier about the total number of oversight personnel in Transport Canada and I misspoke. That number should be somewhat over 1,220 safety oversight personnel, if I could just put that on the record, please.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Thank you, Ms. Kinney.

I have used up my time. I now give the floor to Mr. Watson, for five minutes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think I was at recommendation 7.58, but allow me to back up for just a moment to recommendation 7.42.

I had mentioned the transportation information regulations having come into force and that we were anticipating information from federal railway companies this fall to analyze next year. The commitment to the Auditor General was that by early 2016 the revised regulations would be introduced. That's a substantial step forward, to be at the stage of analysis in the same time period. That information obviously is critical to oversight activities.

Going back to recommendation 7.58 now, Transport Canada had agreed that by mid-2014 it would complete implementation of the rail safety integrated gateway system audit and inspection modules, including training for Transport Canada staff on documentation and communication of oversight activity findings and follow-up requirements.

That was completed in July 2014, so it's a commitment made and a commitment kept on that one.

You also committed that by spring 2014, Transport Canada would develop a follow-up procedure and provide all inspectors with training on the procedure to enhance the consistency of follow-up activity.

The training of inspectors on new follow-up procedures was completed in June 2014. Is that correct?

[Brigitte Diogo]

That is correct.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, so that's another commitment that has been made.

Moving to recommendation 7.70, it states:

Transport Canada should identify and develop a strategy to ensure that it has the needed number of inspectors with the necessary skills and competencies required to plan and conduct the oversight of federal railways, including oversight of safety management systems.

Transport Canada, in its response, committed to developing a human resource strategy. That was completed in June 2014. Is that correct?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

You committed to training, recruitment, and retention strategies that would be updated. When was that completed? I understand that was in June 2014 as well.

[Brigitte Diogo]

That was completed earlier, in December 2014.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

December 2014, okay.

You had also suggested that you would complete a skills and competency assessment by December of 2014. When was that completed?

[Brigitte Diogo]

In June 2014.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, so I have them backwards, then. So I had a schedule on that one.

We've already heard that the number of oversight positions is significantly up in rail safety and dramatically in TDG in terms of oversight, and I think Canadians can be better assured that the human resource capacity and the resources to support those people are firmly in place to assure public safety.

You continue to hire, is that correct, with respect to inspections?

[Laureen Kinney]

That's correct.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

We clearly see, Mr. Chair, that with respect to the period that was audited over three years ago, Transport Canada has fulfilled the commitments it made in late 2013. There are a couple of matters, as you've indicated, that are still to go ahead, including the analysis of the safety data that will be coming from railway companies, and others. I would suggest that Transport Canada's implementation of its response to chapter 7 of the Auditor General's report has been largely successful, Mr. Chair. I think we can all feel a larger sense of reassurance that Transport Canada has taken the Auditor General's recommendations seriously on behalf of Canadians. We thank them for that effort.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Watson.

We still have a bit of time before the end of this meeting, so maybe we will have a short question from Mr. Sullivan, then another short question from the Conservatives, if we have time.

So a very short question.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

On the issue of risk-based assessments, risk-based inspections, risk-based analyses of safe management systems, I'd like to get an example of how Transport Canada would modify its inspections and it's analysis of the safety management systems based on an incident. For example, there were two significant crashes near Gogama, Ontario, by CN that involved explosions and fire, a long-burning fire of oil. What has Transport Canada now done as a result of that to change how it will manage CN, who in this case was the culprit or the affected party?