Transport Committee on April 30th, 2018

[Marc Fortin]

You ask if it's unique. No, there are other jurisdictions. I don't remember which one, but I know that for the year 2014-15 it prioritized strictly waste water because it was a priority in that province. Some provinces and territories do carve out something.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I have no problem with the priorities, and I support that. However, I think that carving out 25% of the dollars that actually go to the province, the total pot of money.... That's 25% of the fund that could be distributed to municipalities to let them make their own decisions about how they're going to spend it. That's my rant for the day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

All right, that's your rant for the day.

You still have a couple of minutes on your side.

Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

In 2018, Infrastructure Canada published a document entitled “Investing in Canada: Canada's Long-Term Infrastructure Plan”. What initiatives have been implemented under the “Investing in Canada” plan to improve data collection concerning the state and performance of existing infrastructure?

[Yazmine Laroche]

One that I think I mentioned earlier is Statistics Canada. We're doing a partnership program with Statistics Canada. One of the things that is behind this plan is this focus on evidence and data and the fact that we didn't really have access to very good comprehensive data about the state of public infrastructure across this country. The decision was made to invest in improving that capacity. One of the flagship initiatives of that is the partnership that we have with Statistics Canada. They're just in the final stages of pulling together the data. They went out right across the country to collect data on multiple classes of infrastructure so that we could at least establish a baseline. That baseline is then going to enable us to see what a difference our investments are making over time. We'll actually be able to answer the question “did we make it better?” We expect to have preliminary results out this fall. It's going to be incredibly helpful to us.

Also, the Canada Infrastructure Bank is going to have an important responsibility in terms of data collection.

Glenn, I don't know if there is something that you'd like to add about that.

[Glenn Campbell]

As a supplement to what Infrastructure Canada is doing horizontally with our partners, including StatsCan, the Canada Infrastructure Bank will use its arm's-length, independent nature and its collaboration with our partners to collect, manage, and disseminate data, particularly relating to those asset classes that may have a revenue or a private component. They're adding value. There's going to be a lot of coordination among the various players to ensure that we're collecting the right data and distributing it in the right way, and to look at whether it underpins the StatsCan data, what our department is doing, and what exists among our various partners. There is certainly a lot of effort and, I must admit, a lot of collaboration from our provinces, territories, and municipalities to really work with us on improving the dataset in order to improve decision-making around infrastructure in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to continue with the subject of federal bridges.

What's the government's logic in putting a toll on the new Gordie Howe bridge at the Windsor-Detroit crossing and not putting a toll on the new Champlain Bridge in Montreal?

[Yazmine Laroche]

Mr. Chong, I don't think I can answer that question. That's a policy decision of government. Governments will make decisions on how they want to manage major projects, and that was a decision taken by the government. Our job is to implement it to the best of our ability.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

It was a decision taken by the cabinet.

[Yazmine Laroche]

By the government—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

You're part of the government as well.

[Yazmine Laroche]

Thank you for that.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'm asking because we live in a big country, as was pointed out earlier, diverse in ethnocultural communities but also diverse in region. We now have a situation where there's a sense of unfairness about federal bridge policy with respect to tolling.

We have what could be up to a $4-billion or $5-billion new federal bridge going in at Windsor–Detroit that's going to be tolled for 30 or more years. We have a $4-billion plus bridge that's nearing completion in Montreal, where no toll's going to be levied.

It seems unfair, particularly in light of the fact that Prince Edward Islanders have to pay a toll of $46.50 to cross the Confederation Bridge. It feeds into the sense that things aren't fair, and it feeds into the sense of regional grievance.

I've heard arguments from ministers saying the Champlain Bridge is not going to be tolled because it's not a new bridge. Well, arguably the Confederation Bridge across the Northumberland Strait isn't a new bridge either, in the sense that Prince Edward Island entered Confederation on certain terms and conditions, one of which was for the government of the day to maintain a continuous link between the island and the mainland. Back then the technology didn't exist to have a permanent fixed link bridge so there was a permanent, year-round ferry service. That ferry service has been reduced because the fixed link now exists. Arguably it's not a new thing but a replacement for an older technology.

It just seems unfair. Some other people have said to me, “Well, you know the Champlain Bridge is a commuter bridge from the South Shore to the island of Montreal.” Arguably so are the bridges that cross at Windsor–Detroit, Sarnia–Port Huron, and the twin cities of Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, and Sault Ste. Marie in the United States. They are also commuter bridges. Lots of people live in Windsor and work in Detroit, particularly in the field of health care. The same is true of other crossings.

It just seems unfair that there's no toll on one $4-billion bridge nearing completion this year, but there will be one on a $4-billion bridge that will be completed in about five years.

I guess I'm making a comment rather than posing a question, but it's a comment I wanted to make.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

On to Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Before the committee turned its attention to the update on infrastructure projects and the investing in Canada plan, it was studying automated and connected vehicles. One of the biggest things that emerged from our discussions was the federal government's slowness in responding to this revolution in transportation and adapting existing infrastructure.

All that to say how important it is to develop smart infrastructure and, by extension, smart cities. Can you explain how the smart cities challenge helps lay the groundwork for this emerging reality?

[Yazmine Laroche]

Thank you for the question.

We launched the smart cities challenge a few months ago and are extremely happy to have received as many applications as we did by the April 24 deadline. I think we got more than 100. The purpose of the smart cities challenge is to identify the major challenges facing communities and the ways in which technology can help them overcome those challenges.

Every community decides on the challenge it wants to address. It is up to the community to tell us how it will leverage technology to overcome the challenge. It could be a smart system, the use of self-driving vehicles, a better social assistance regime, a solution related to climate change, or a tool that improves the quality of life of people with disabilities. The idea is to find new ways to improve cities and communities through technology.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Do you think the challenge will lead to more connected infrastructure that is both adaptable and adapted to change?

[Yazmine Laroche]

I think it's a strong possibility, but it will depend on the applications we receive. I haven't seen them yet.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Hardie can have the rest of my time.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I have a quick comment on tolls for my honourable friend across the way. Tolls are more than just raising revenue. I know from personal experience that they are also a demand management tool; you can have a variable toll that can incent travel at one time of the day and not others. That's a good strategy, particularly where you've got cross-border....

We have three buckets: the transportation bucket, the green bucket, and the social infrastructure. What's the take-up been like on the green infrastructure funding envelope, particularly communities that have recognized they have challenges around climate change?

[Yazmine Laroche]

Are you talking about budget 2016 or budget 2017?

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

All of them, because as I say, the rather large amount of money that we're talking about is allocated fundamentally across those three sections.

I was wondering if communities are starting to recognize the impacts of climate change and will be applying for money to do something about it.

[Yazmine Laroche]

We had two buckets under budget 2016. The focus of one was clean water and waste water, and the other was public transit. We had huge take-up on both of those, and we're at about 95% in allocating all those funds across the country. It shows there's absolutely a desire when it comes to improving outcomes.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You would expect that, yes, of course, but on climate change, the resiliency for flooding, fires, etc., is that recognized as an issue across the country? Are people lining up for that kind of funding?