Transport Committee on Sept. 20th, 2018

[Martin Bolduc]

Thank you for the question.

The pilot, as you mentioned, was run for a few months. Yes, we were able to gather valuable information, and in fact that information led to the new pre-clearance agreement whereby both the CBSA and the U.S. CBP will have the ability to pre-clear people and goods in all modes. Currently, the U.S. CBP has pre-clearance operations in eight airports in Canada, but they were solely for air travellers. The new pre-clearance agreement will give both countries the ability to pre-clear goods, having the CBSA operating in the U.S. and the U.S. CBP operating in Canada in all modes.

That information is valuable. We're looking, from a Canadian perspective, as to where we could operate in the U.S. to essentially facilitate the movement and pre-clearance, whether it is railcars or commercial shipments, so that when they show up at the border, they don't have to stop; they just have to slow down and continue. Those discussions are ongoing, and we're seeing if industry is interested. The initial feedback from industry is that there's an openness to considering these activities. Those consultations will continue to inform the CBSA and enable us to make a recommendation to the government as to where we should be located.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

In those consultations, have you identified today what the largest barriers are to being able to implement that?

[Martin Bolduc]

I would say one of the barriers is that when you conduct pre-clearance activities, you want to ensure that whatever is pre-cleared is under control until it makes it to the border so that if a shipment is deemed customs-cleared, there is no possibility of introducing contraband into it. That's one of the big challenges and that's why we're working with industry to find ways to ensure that the goods won't be infected—if I can say that—before they make it to the border.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

What handle do you have on forecasts in terms of individual ports of entry, by road and seaport particularly? What's coming at you in terms of volumes, specifically on the west coast? Do you have that information at hand?

[Martin Bolduc]

We don't necessarily have forecasts. We leverage years of information to be able to forecast periods during the year when we can expect to get an increase in volumes. We don't get advance information, but based on the data we have, we are able to predict those busy periods.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do you have the staffing flexibility to manage that? I heard you use the term “risk management”, which means you're managing risk, not necessarily the whole picture.

[Martin Bolduc]

We're managing risk. When I say we're managing risk, we want to focus on what we consider to be high risk and not spend a lot of time on low risk. That's our approach. We have staffing flexibility and we ramp up ahead of those busy periods. We might expect to have a container ship arriving, but bad weather at sea might delay it, so we have to readjust based on what we have. There are many variables that keep us on our toes, but we are able to react as needed.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

How long does it take to inspect the average truck coming over the border at the Pacific crossing, or a container arriving in downtown Vancouver or out at Deltaport? What kind of inspection time is required to be devoted to it before it goes on its way?

[Johny Prasad]

It varies. As Mr. Bolduc mentioned, we follow a risk management approach. The time depends on what type of indications we have for the examination. If it's just a quick check to see if the load is sealed, it could be very quickly done, say in five to 15 minutes. If we're going to be able to leverage some of our large-scale imaging devices, which is a very large X-ray, we could run it through there in about five minutes. Then the officer tries to analyze the image to figure out if there are any indicators of non-compliance.

If there is something that seems like an anomaly, we can investigate it right then and there and have the truck keep moving down the road. The old way was that we'd have to back it up to a warehouse and unload the whole thing, which could take on average four hours and two officers, along with offload service providers. A lot of time and effort went into the manual examination.

In the marine mode, it's also quite dependent on the terminal service operator or the terminal operator. If the discharge of the vessel is delayed, first it comes off the vessel through the gantry and sits on the terminal. Through a reservation system, they have to order a drayage contractor to come and pick up that container and move it to the container examination facility. You might know that in Vancouver, the container examination facility right now is in Burnaby, over 50 kilometres away. The CBSA is moving to build a brand new one in Deltaport, only five kilometres away, which will help expedite the container examinations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We want everybody to get an opportunity here.

Go ahead, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

My question will take us back in time a little bit. According an older Auditor General's report, an initiative led by Transport Canada was supposed to provide information in real time on wait times to help the Canada Border Services Agency better plan the use of its resources at the border. Travellers and commercial carriers could also use that information to make informed decisions on the best time and the best place to cross the border. Transport Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency had committed to implement a wait time measurement system on both sides of the border, at 20 selected high-priority border crossings.

My question is very simple. How far along is that initiative? Have the 20 border crossings implemented those measures? If so, what has been the initiative's outcome?

[Johny Prasad]

I'm not aware of the exact progress on it, but we are working with Transport Canada, our U.S. colleagues, and quite often the provincial road or transportation partners to ensure that the border wait time technology has been implemented. Because there are so many partners involved, it is taking some time. I can get you a follow-up response on exactly which ports have been implemented and what the status report is, but I can assure you there is work ongoing to bring in border wait time technology.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I would like to at least be provided with a report on the 20 border crossings. Knowing whether four, five or 18 of them have implemented those measures would already be significant.

In addition, I would like to know whether they are any considerable differences between Canada and the United States in terms of security standards related to the transportation of goods, or whether our rules are relatively harmonized.

[Martin Bolduc]

I could talk to you about border procedures, which are highly harmonized. As for security standards in transportation, that falls more within the purview of Transport Canada than of the Canada Border Services Agency.

As we have already said about border procedures, many programs are collaborative. So there is reciprocity between programs in order to facilitate the movement of goods at the border. Our border procedures are very similar.

I could not answer you with regard to security.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

I would like to come back to the Auditor General's report from 2012. It says that the Canada Border Services Agency was not keeping a record of the number of lookouts leading to interceptions of shipments.

Is that still the case, or is there now a registry where agency employees must report interceptions?

[Martin Bolduc]

The audit you are referring to, stated that we lacked rigour when a lookout was issued, regarding a risky shipment. Following that lookout, our documentation on the inspection or on its outcome was incomplete. Therefore, we have taken steps to remedy the situation, so that our officers who conduct inspections would produce reports. Of course, making sure that the circle is complete is always a challenge. That said, the Agency has made a great deal of progress in this area since 2012.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Does the report....

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Aubin, I'm sorry, but your time is up.

Go ahead, Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning.

Under the beyond the border action plan, the Canadian and U.S. governments implemented, in 2013, a pilot project you probably know about.

Are there any significant differences between the two countries in terms of security standards?

[Martin Bolduc]

If you want to know whether we are ensuring that security measures are in place to facilitate the movement of goods at the border, I would say that our procedures are very similar. For example, CBSA officers are posted at the targeting centre of our colleagues from the U.S. Customs and Borders Protection in a Washington suburb. Those officers are working with American colleagues to align our targeting.

Of course, there are two different sets of laws. We are talking about sovereign countries. Regarding work procedures, however, you can assume that what is considered high risk by the Canada Border Services Agency is probably considered the same by our U.S. colleagues. So it is very harmonized.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Would you agree that this type of inspection is thorough?

[Martin Bolduc]

Nothing leads me to believe that inspections are not conducted thoroughly.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What about CETA's arrival? Are there similar measures? For instance, are inspections conducted with as much rigour? This is new, as the agreement with the European Union has just come into force. For the Port of Montreal, for example, what measures have been implemented exactly? The same measures are probably not in place in Vancouver.

[Martin Bolduc]

I will try to explain it to you. We're essentially talking about a free trade agreement. That helps reduce tariffs on commercial imports.

When it comes to the audit procedure, a free trade agreement changes nothing. If the CBSA has reasons to believe that a shipment could represent a risk, be it in terms of firearms smuggling or drugs, or that, for instance, fruits and vegetables could carry a health risk, having a free trade agreement does not change the way we conduct inspections. Those are two completely different things.