Evidence of meeting #108 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sandra LaFortune  Director General, International Relations and Trade Policy, Department of Transport
David McNabb  Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Christian Dea  Director General, Transportation and Economic Analysis, Chief Economist, Department of Transport
Martin McKay  Director, Transportation Infrastructure Programs (West), Department of Transport
Patrick Gosselin  Director, Port Policy, Department of Transport
Matt Jeneroux  Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Churence Rogers  Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.
Chris Bittle  St. Catharines, Lib.
Martin Bolduc  Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Johny Prasad  Director, Program Compliance and Outreach, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Scott Taymun  Director General, Transformation and Border Infrastructure and Renewal Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling to order the meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. This is our first session of the 42nd Parliament. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of the Canadian transportation and logistics strategy.

For the first hour this morning, from the Department of Transport, we have Christian Dea, chief economist and director general of transportation and economic analysis; Sandra LaFortune, director general of international relations and trade policy; Martin McKay, director of transportation infrastructure programs in the west; and David McNabb, director general of surface transportation policy.

Thank you so very much for joining us first thing this morning.

Good morning to all of our members. We have Chris Bittle filling in this morning. Welcome. Of course, there's David Graham, who likes to watch what transportation does all the time. Welcome to all of the members.

Who would like to go first?

8:45 a.m.

Sandra LaFortune Director General, International Relations and Trade Policy, Department of Transport

Thank you very much, Madam Chair and members, for inviting Transport Canada to appear before you today as you move forward on your study on the establishment of a Canadian transportation and logistics strategy. This is a broad subject, and we hope the background information we have provided helps to show how Transport Canada's work aligns with and can contribute to your study. It is clear from your committee's work over the last few years that some of the subject matter will not be new to you.

My name is Sandra LaFortune. I am the director general of the international relations and trade policy branch at Transport Canada.

Before we begin, I will ask my colleagues to introduce themselves and outline briefly their own areas of responsibility within Transport Canada.

8:45 a.m.

David McNabb Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

Good morning, everyone. My name is David McNabb. I am the director general for surface transportation policy, and I am responsible for policy development in the freight and passenger rail area, as well as highways, borders and motor carriers.

8:45 a.m.

Christian Dea Director General, Transportation and Economic Analysis, Chief Economist, Department of Transport

Good morning. My name is Christian Dea. I am the director general of transportation and economic analysis, and my responsibility is to monitor the performance of the system.

8:45 a.m.

Martin McKay Director, Transportation Infrastructure Programs (West), Department of Transport

My name is Martin McKay. I am the director of the transportation infrastructure programs group, with the fundamental responsibility of delivery of the national trade corridors fund.

8:45 a.m.

Director General, International Relations and Trade Policy, Department of Transport

Sandra LaFortune

I'll begin by making a few opening remarks. In the time remaining, we all would be pleased to answer any questions you may have. I should note as well that we have provided four background documents, as per your request, to support your study.

Minister Garneau's transportation 2030 vision is a good starting point for our discussion. With transportation 2030, the minister is delivering on his commitment to create a safe, secure, green, innovative and integrated transportation system that supports trade and economic growth, a cleaner environment and the well-being of Canadians and their families. Transportation 2030 sets out the government's strategic plan for the future of transportation in Canada and is a reflection of what we heard directly from Canadians during extensive cross-Canada consultations.

In moving forward with this strategic plan, we are seeking to identify opportunities to enhance the traveller experience; remain vigilant to our fundamental responsibility to ensure a safe and secure transportation system; use innovative technologies to reduce the system's environmental impacts and build the transportation system of the future; protect our waterways, coasts and northern areas and build our reputation as a world-leading maritime and Arctic nation; and ensure that the transportation system enables Canada's trade and economic objectives. You'll note in the background information circulated that these goals align with the five core themes of transportation 2030.

The government is taking action on a number of fronts to help bring the transportation 2030 vision to fruition. For example, in May 2018, the Transportation Modernization Act—formerly Bill C-49—was approved by Parliament, and the implementation of initiatives like the oceans protection plan and the port modernization review continues. Together, these and related initiatives aim to address the needs for the future of transportation in Canada. In the context of our appearance before you today, we know that these needs include cost-effective, reliable and timely transportation access to global markets so as to enhance our trade competitiveness and ultimately grow Canada's economy.

Making strategic and cost-shared investments in trade-related transportation infrastructure has been central in our efforts to achieve this goal over the last 10 years. A key distinction of Canada's approach, which has since been emulated by other countries, is that it is multimodal and based on systems rather than on the performance or capacity of individual modes of transportation separately.

This approach mirrors the way in which businesses approach the physical movement of imports and exports from their starting points to their ultimate destinations. It also recognizes that changes or improvements at one point within our integrated transportation network can have far-reaching impacts on the performance and capacity of the system overall.

Being strategic, we aim to align our investments to improve access to priority and high-growth markets. The background information concerning the Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor transportation infrastructure fund highlights some of the progress we have achieved in western Canada over the last decade. The update on the trade and transportation corridors initiative, or the TTCI, outlines how we are building on our best practices and lessons learned over the past decade to address the needs for the future of the trade-related transportation system in Canada.

Rather than repeat all the details included in the TTCI reference document that we prepared, it may be more useful to briefly provide you with a sense of where we are today. In the context of the national trade corridors fund, which is the core of the trade and transportation corridors initiative, Minister Garneau and the Government of Canada have so far announced federal investments of nearly $760 million in trade and transportation infrastructure projects across the country. These are cost-shared with other levels of government and the private sector.

The reference document provides examples of projects that support import and export flows with established and high-growth markets, recognize the need to strengthen the climate resilience of transportation infrastructure and support the unique transportation needs of Canada's territories, support safety and improved traffic flow for both cargo and residents—particularly around Canada's largest ports—and are based on collaboration with and among infrastructure owners, authorities and other levels of government to help maximize the scale, scope and impact of our investments.

While collaboration with stakeholders provides valuable insight into where public and private infrastructure needs or bottlenecks exist, Transport Canada has also invested significantly to establish an objective evidence base to help inform and quantify trade-related transportation infrastructure issues. This past year, the department, in collaboration with Statistics Canada, established the Canadian centre on transportation data, an open portal for multimodal transportation data and performance measures. The trade and transportation corridors initiative background document provides more details on future plans in this area.

Innovation and new technologies will continue to shape transportation infrastructure needs and uses. Within the context of the TTCI, Transport Canada is undertaking targeted actions in the areas of connected and automated vehicles, and unmanned aerial vehicles or remotely piloted aircraft systems. A central goal of this work is to ensure their safe deployment and use. In the context of transportation infrastructure, for example, future uses could include long-range infrastructure inspections and, over the long term, perhaps even carrying cargo and passengers. From a road transportation perspective, the uses of connected and automated vehicles are both promising and likely disruptive.

I will conclude my remarks at this point. We would be pleased to respond to any questions you may have, and we look forward to a more interactive discussion.

Thank you.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much. We appreciate that you keep your comments brief, so that the committee gets a full opportunity to ask the many questions they have.

We'll start with Mr. Liepert, for six minutes, please.

September 20th, 2018 / 8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Mr. McNabb is probably the fellow who can answer this question.

First of all, of the three of us on this side of the table, Kelly comes from Saskatchewan, and Matt and I from Alberta. Rail transportation has always been an issue in western Canada, but it was primarily our grain producers who couldn't get product to market.

In recent years, the issue of oil by rail has become increasingly.... Well, we're now up to 200,000 barrels a day by rail; you can correct me if my numbers are wrong here. To put some context around this for those who wouldn't be that familiar with it, I believe each railcar carries 1,000 barrels of oil, which means that every day there are 200 railcars full of oil on a track. It probably takes four or five days to get to the coast, so we're talking 1,000 to 2,000 railcars on tracks at any one particular time.

These railcars are going through areas of British Columbia that Mr. Hardie would be very familiar with, over the Fraser River. I am quite surprised that we haven't yet had an environmental catastrophe. The reason this is happening is obviously the delay in pipeline construction.

What are you doing to try to encourage the federal government or at least put the federal government on notice that we are on the verge of an environmental catastrophe if we don't move ahead with pipeline development and get these oil cars off the rail tracks.

8:50 a.m.

Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

David McNabb

Thank you for the question.

From our perspective, one of the key things we are doing is monitoring the situation in terms of the statistics and the volumes. I know that Christian's group is reviewing a lot of the commodities that are on the rail network system. Part of that is monitoring what's happening going forward and being able to report in terms of how the mix of commodities is changing over time, and then thinking about what type of remedies we may need to put in place given the risks that may be coming up. In terms of safety and security, we have an area within the department that we would be providing that information to, and then they would be looking at the potential risks and what some of the potential responses to those risks would be.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

As a department, are you getting concerned about this? Are you advising the minister that this is becoming a very serious issue, or are you just monitoring it?

8:55 a.m.

Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

David McNabb

We're providing the information. That is not an area that I'm responsible for, but from our perspective, we provide that kind of objective information for consideration. It's not something I can comment on in terms of the safety and security side because that's not my area of responsibility.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Can somebody else comment?

I find it very disturbing that this doesn't seem to be of any priority for senior officials of the transportation department, and yet we in western Canada are getting more and more concerned every day. I just can't believe that the Department of Transport wouldn't be pushing the government to deal with this issue.

8:55 a.m.

Director General, International Relations and Trade Policy, Department of Transport

Sandra LaFortune

In fact, as part of the safety and security sector of Transport Canada, there is a group that is dedicated to the transportation of dangerous goods, and there are also groups dedicated to rail safety. I think between those two, they are definitely keeping an eye on what's going on and coming up with potential options.

Our role is to provide that information, those options and the advice that we can to senior management and to the minister for onward transmission.

I don't think that people are not paying attention to it. I think that those groups in particular are keeping a close eye on what's going on.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Well, it's not a matter of paying attention to it. It's a matter of making—

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

You have 30 seconds.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Okay.

It's a matter of making the case to elected officials that something has to be done about this issue, and the obvious one is to build a pipeline to get the railcars off the tracks.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Liepert.

We go on to Mr. Badawey.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I believe it was announced yesterday that the government is accelerating the replacement of tanker cars with up-to-date, safer, higher-standard tanker cars. Is that true?

8:55 a.m.

Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport

David McNabb

I don't know.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Okay, we'll leave it at that.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We've all seen it.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

As you know, the committee is going on a tour. We're going down to Niagara to look at the infrastructure of the trade corridor, as well as the multimodal network they have available there. After those two days, we're going to move on to the Asia-Pacific to visit Vancouver, Prince Rupert, and Seattle.

My first question to you is—because you are the reason we're taking the trip to get you that information—what is some of the information? We don't want to duplicate a lot of what has already been done. What is some of the information that you'll be looking for us to bring back with us to help you in your deliberations and in your process: one, to recognize the trade corridors, the assets and the benefits of those locations, and two, to add into the overall trade corridors fund any information that will make it easier for you to make decisions about where infrastructure funds go?

8:55 a.m.

Director, Transportation Infrastructure Programs (West), Department of Transport

Martin McKay

I'll start, and then maybe my colleagues can jump in if I miss any details. One thing we've seen through the consultations and discussions with applicants and interested parties for the national trade corridors fund is a real demand for that infrastructure.

During your visits, any information you can develop and bring back regarding potential projects, but also both qualitative and quantitative data supporting that.... When we had our first round of funding applications under the national trade corridors fund, we saw a huge reach of projects all the way across the country. There were strengths with some. There were other projects that didn't show enough detail. They didn't provide enough numbers to really highlight the strength of those proposals. When you're out talking to stakeholders and doing your consultations and discussions, getting some concrete numbers that support their investment ideas would be very useful.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Okay, thank you.

Sandra, go ahead.

9 a.m.

Director General, International Relations and Trade Policy, Department of Transport

Sandra LaFortune

I would say that it would be really interesting to get a better sense, from the perspective of the people you'll be talking to, of where they see the priorities that are required around transportation infrastructure, where they see the bottlenecks that need to be fixed and what they consider to be the most important and biggest-bang-for-your-buck projects that could be invested in that would make the biggest difference for Canadian transportation. These are key goals we have. It would be really interesting to hear from the people you'll be talking to, because we do have, in Christian's shop and elsewhere, a lot of expertise, data analytics and even people on the ground through our regional offices, but hearing from the stakeholders and the people who use the system is always invaluable.