Transport Committee on Sept. 24th, 2018

[Bruce Hodgson]

Within the Welland Canal, we are somewhat limited in terms of the rail capabilities, so that's an opportunity that we would see moving forward. We have very good access into the U.S. from a highway standpoint, so we continue to see that as an opportunity. Again, I think our opportunity would be in increasing rail.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

It is said that cooperation between Canadian ports is an aspect that often goes unnoticed in discussions. However, it appears essential to ensure a uniform level of performance and quality of services offered across Canada.

How is the formal and informal exchange of knowledge between Canada's ports carried out?

[Ian Hamilton]

One of the best ways that we collaborate is through the Association of Canadian Port Authorities. That allows us to share best practices. That's a formal association out of Ottawa. All 18 ports come together, and key priorities around sustainability, the interface with the community, and what best practices exist for minimizing the environmental impact are shared and exchanged. Certainly, this is a wonderful source of sharing those best practices. Right now, it's a voluntary commitment that we've made to each other, but every one of us has a responsibility for operating in a sustainable manner, so it's in our best interest to try to move in this direction.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Aubry-Morin, do you have anything to add?

[Jean Aubry-Morin]

I'll complement what Mr. Hamilton is saying. The seaway also has a very expansive stakeholder engagement plan that includes all aspects of the business. To touch on Mr. Hardie's statement, it also includes the community side of the business.

I can give you two examples. One is our stakeholder engagement plan, for which we have established an outreach program specifically to be able to get inside the community and understand the needs of the industry and the community. You mentioned the fact of convergence or harmonization of use being a reality, as we recognized a decade ago.

As for the relationship with our sister network ports and other agencies, we are working closely with them on an ongoing basis to make sure we establish in our strategic plan the needs that every segment of the business has to make sure that we can grow in harmony together.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Do I have some more time? I have one more little question.

What are the intelligent infrastructure plans for your respective ports?

[Jean Aubry-Morin]

One of our biggest challenges in innovation is the use of artificial intelligence to help our management make strategic decisions. Mr. Hodgson alluded to it earlier. Tomorrow's technologies that will help decision-decision making, planning and all aspects of information and power are at the heart of our strategy for the future.

We are currently developing a strategic plan called Strategy 2030. In terms of technology, it will allow us to explore how the various companies and partners could best benefit from artificial intelligence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to dive in a bit deeper with respect to the comments made earlier by Mr. Hardie about the land and the challenges that sometimes run between the residential and industrial communities. It was mentioned earlier, Mr. Hamilton, that the lands in the Hamilton port have become exhausted. Knowing the Hamilton port quite well, I know there is a bit of a disconnect or distance between the residential and the port lands. I'm sure it's sometimes a challenge, but not much.

In working with the seaway and looking at the Niagara area with the lands that are available—and a lot of those lands are far removed from residential areas—how do you see that playing on in the future, not only to add to the economy but also to add to the separation between residential and industrial activities?

[Ian Hamilton]

In my comments, I talked about Niagara having this potential of a lot of industrial properties and communities that are less adjacent to them. There is a neat opportunity to develop new port facilities in the Niagara region. Some of those lands could be owned by Transport Canada or by a third party or municipalities, potentially even the region. There are a number of different ways to look at strategic pieces to grow facilities outside the urban boundaries that exist in areas like Hamilton or potentially even St. Catharines. A good example would be Toronto. We're seeing continual pressure to move the Toronto port lands away from residential development. You're exactly right. We have to look at where areas can be developed more industrially away from urban boundaries.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Bruce and Jean and Ian, do you see an opportunity here—and this is one of the reasons we're here in Niagara—to sit down with all the partners here in the Niagara-Hamilton area, and even western New York, as far as outside of Hamilton as the Brantford, K-W and Sarnia areas, to bring the economic benefits of this transportation hub and to put a strategic plan together that is multimodal—road, water and air—and takes into consideration all the interests and the trade corridors, as well as the individual interests working in tandem, aligning with that overall bigger picture?

[Ian Hamilton]

We certainly do, at the Hamilton Port Authority. Looking into the availability of the property, the appetite for the region and the potential for the region—these all play a critical role. As Bruce pointed out, there's probably not the right integration in Niagara yet with rail and marine at this particular moment in time, but there's the potential to develop that. This is where the national trade corridors fund can be very opportunistic in pushing some of these agendas forward.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Bruce, go ahead.

[Bruce Hodgson]

We certainly see an opportunity there, Mr. Badawey. As part of our mandate, we do confer with all of our stakeholders and municipalities.

On the interface between public and industry, we think there is an opportunity, with some of the land we have, to have both coexist quite successfully if it's planned properly—if buffer zones, etc., are put in place.

Yes, we think there's an opportunity there, and we would embrace that.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

One reason that the minister has embarked on the trade corridors effort, as well as the ports modernization review, is bottlenecks. He constantly refers to bottlenecks being a major challenge in a lot of gateways throughout the nation. Where do you see some of those bottlenecks?

Ian, you mentioned the mid-peninsula corridor, and obviously the QEW and the 401. I think some of the members, coming up here yesterday from the airport, recognized some of the traffic we have on the QEW and the need, therefore, to get that traffic through with fluidity. Where do you see some of the bottlenecks? What do you see as some of the solutions?

[Bruce Hodgson]

We see opportunities in modal shift, such as moving traffic from the highways onto the water. For example, there has been quite a change in the trucking industry in the U.S. with the electronic logs that have been introduced. We expect to see this spinning off into Canada fairly shortly.

By the time a trucker coming out of the Ohio valley hits St. Catharines, he's maxed out on his hours, so he's going to have to take rest time. We've been approached with the question whether it makes sense to have a cross-lake truck ferry, for example, to go from St. Catharines over toward the Kingston area? We've been working on that to see if there's an opportunity. Those are the kinds of opportunities we see.

We think that short sea shipping can play an important role with the 401 and what's happening there from a congestion standpoint, but we need the resources to get there.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Ian, go ahead.

[Ian Hamilton]

To facilitate modal shift, you also need that interface capacity where you're able to actually handle the cargo. We see a shortage of overall capacity for creating these multimodal hubs. We certainly see the potential for it. We see that it exists in the region and all of southern Ontario, but we haven't quite seen the proper zoning go through to say, “Let's dedicate this piece of property and these investments to create that shift.”

Mr. Iacono, you asked about intelligence. In reality—as we do it in the bulk cargo at the port—there's not a huge amount of artificial intelligence being implemented. However, Bruce brought up data earlier. One challenge we have in all of Canada is that we don't have nearly as good data sources as they do in the United States. It's very difficult for us to truly understand all of those flows from point A to point B. That information allows us to figure out where the best place is to locate those assets, and where the best place is to put our funds. I know it's not sexy like a robot, but just that base information is going to be essential to making the right decisions.

I know there's a fund as part of the transportation plan to develop that, although we've had fairly limited input and we don't know exactly where it's going. We'd encourage you to say that the more information we can gather, the better decisions we can make and the better proposals we can put forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hamilton.

Mr. Jeneroux, go ahead.

[Matt Jeneroux]

Perfect. Thank you.

This is for both Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Aubry-Morin. Mr. Hamilton, you brought up the national trade corridors fund. It was announced in November 2016. Have you seen any funds flow from that yet?

[Ian Hamilton]

In Hamilton, we haven't seen any investments at this phase. Certainly, in looking at some of the other projects, I think Thunder Bay has a good project to develop some infrastructure for covered storage. We've seen a few other announcements out in the west. When the fund was announced, it was oversubscribed by some crazy amount—like 20 or 25 times. We still see more potential to invest, but we're totally supportive of the money that has been allocated at this stage, although we would like to see some in Hamilton, too.

[Matt Jeneroux]

Have you made an application?

[Ian Hamilton]

We have made an application, yes.

[Matt Jeneroux]

However, you haven't seen it.

[Ian Hamilton]

It's still in discussion, I think.