Transport Committee on Sept. 26th, 2018

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

I'll leave the rest of my time to my colleague Ken.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I do have one question. We should talk about CATSA a little bit. When I'm in the lineup, if the CATSA operator has to go back and take a second look at a bag, I really don't have a problem with that. It's better safe than sorry, obviously.

I guess the question becomes whether there is a risk management regime that should be considered to improve the flow, the efficiency, and the cost involved with providing that kind of screening.

You were nodding, Mr. Bruno.

[Gerry Bruno]

Absolutely. That is something we've been pushing for as airports.

A few years ago, when the CTA review was going on, I was commissioned by the Canadian Airports Council to do their submission to the CTA review and I drafted a component on aviation security, which is one of the big missing ingredients in the Canadian security system. There are not enough risk-based approaches, like trusted traveller programs. The U.S. has pre-check, which, if you've used it, is a dream if you're going through that. We need more of that in Canada, but they need funding to be able to have a program to be able to vet passengers in advance and have them become members of that type of a program.

As Mr. Dickson mentioned, there's not a matching of revenue. One of our frustrations is that our international passengers are paying $26 per flight to go through security, but that money does not go to CATSA; it goes into the general revenue fund, and then CATSA has to apply through Transport Canada to get funding for their operations. There's not a match. Traffic is growing and the revenue pot from the air travellers security charge is growing, but the funding to CATSA is not growing at the same rate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Mr. Badawey is next.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have two questions.

Mr. Bruno, you mentioned that this recommendation is going to be released through the white paper within the next few weeks. Are the recommendations solely defined by the airport itself, or are they a combination of dialogue with other methods of transportation, such as rail, road, and water?

[Gerry Bruno]

We started it, but it is a coalition. There are over 40 members. The major railroads—CN, CP, and BNSF—are part of our coalition, as well as the port of Vancouver and the Association of Canadian Port Authorities. It's a very broad-based membership, and it's more than airports. The eight big international airports in Canada have all contributed. The airlines have contributed. It's broad-based.

We've hired a consulting firm to write the report on our behalf. We've had engagement with both Canadian and U.S. border agencies and government officials. Everyone has had an opportunity to contribute to the white paper.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Essentially, then, it's a trade and passenger corridor strategy document.

[Gerry Bruno]

It's trade and passenger, correct. It's multimodal, and it involves passengers and goods. That is correct.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

It very may well have saved us a trip down here if we had known that.

The second question is to Mr. Dickson.

You mentioned the challenge of accessing federal funds because of the new norm, post the nineties, when you folks—who, by the way, have done a great job—took over the airports and ceased to rely on taxpayer dollars. Private sector investments have brought you to the level you're at now, more than doubling the passenger volume in the airports.

That said—and I mentioned this earlier with other delegations—there are opportunities now at airports and other federally mandated organizations, such as the St. Lawrence Seaway, to combine applications under the trade corridors fund. Essentially, as a trade corridor and as a method or a mode of transport within that trade corridor and a partner within an application, did you consider being a part of that network and therefore being part of an application under the trade corridors fund?

[Geoff Dickson]

Victoria International Airport is self-financing and self-funding. We haven't made any applications, nor do we foresee that. I was speaking more for the six NAS airports that have been precluded from—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Put your association hat on.

[Geoff Dickson]

I'm putting my association hat on. I'm saying that I believe all six were successful in achieving funding this past year through their applications. I don't know the nuances of all the individual applications at this stage, but I understand they have been successful. The issue is really where to go from here.

That's the uncertainty, I believe. The airport world is a little more predictable in terms of looking at growth and planning for growth. You need lead times and you need a degree of certainty so you can make those investments. Obviously, no one has a crystal ball of what growth is going to be, but you need to be able to plan your capital projects three, five, and 10 years ahead of time.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I appreciate that. Having sat on an airport commission for the better part of 15 years in my former life as a mayor, I understand small airport challenges—the capital side of it, and even the operational side that supports the capital side of it. The long-term financing of debt, etc., is critical.

That said, the trade corridors fund goes up to 10 years, I believe, and with that there is an opportunity for small airports to merge, to network, and to be a part of an overall bigger picture of trade corridors. Within that network, they can then make that application, which can give them that sustainability with their capital funding.

It's just a thought that you can pass on to them. Again, though, as I mentioned earlier with other delegations that came out today, the steps we're going to take from here after we leave Vancouver are not going to stop. Our intent is to keep this dialogue going and to ensure that under the trade corridor strategy or strategies across the nation, we sustain not only the concept of having a blueprint put in place but also attach funding to it. That would in turn recognize the ROIs that would be attached, as well as the performance measures and, moving forward, the productivity of the different ports and trade corridors throughout the nation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Liepert is next.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I have just a couple of brief questions. They will probably be for Mr. Bruno only.

What is the governance makeup of your authority?

[Gerry Bruno]

In our authority here in Vancouver, we have 15 board members.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

How are they appointed?

[Gerry Bruno]

We have nominating entities from the Vancouver board of trade, the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of British Columbia, and the Law Society of British Columbia. We have two federal government appointments on our board, a provincial government appointment on our board, the City of Vancouver, the City of Richmond, and—

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Then that's pretty similar to Calgary. I think in Calgary the chamber of commerce is responsible to a greater degree, with half of the board or something like that.

The reason I'm asking about Vancouver is that I don't know that it's necessarily as big a problem in the smaller airports. I'm beginning to hear more and more concerns from citizens that it may be time to look at how those boards are structured, at how they're appointed. We're getting to the point now where, whether it's increased airport user fees or whether it's noise, people are now asking questions about a whole bunch of things in terms of how airports are being run. Again, I'm thinking more of the larger ones. You probably don't have those same kinds of issues.

You may not be in a position to answer this, but I'll ask it anyway. Is it time that maybe the federal government had another look at this to say, for instance, that maybe half the airport authority board should be elected by citizens for a three-year term or something? What kind of thoughts would you have there?

[Gerry Bruno]

I'm not sure I'm a position to be able to answer that.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I appreciate that. You're a paid employee, so I get that.

[Gerry Bruno]

I do know, however, that Transport Canada has been doing a governance review of airport authorities.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Would either of the other two....?

You're in the same position, I suppose. You're both paid employees of the airports?

[Geoff Dickson]

Yes.

[Parm Sidhu]

That's correct.