Evidence of meeting #113 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drivers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sophie Roux  Vice-President, Public Affairs, Montreal Port Authority
Tony Boemi  Vice-President, Growth and Development, Montreal Port Authority
Brendan Marshall  Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada
Jean-Marc Picard  Executive Director, Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association
Nancy Healey  Chief Executive Officer, St. John's Board of Trade
David Tilson  Dufferin—Caledon, CPC

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling to order the 113th meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in this 42nd Parliament, first session. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of the Canadian transportation and logistics strategy.

We have as guests today a group of 27 graduate students from the Clayton H. Riddell graduate program in political management at Carleton University. They are joining us for our two-hour meeting. Welcome to all of you. I wish you lots of success in your program.

To all of our committee members, welcome back. I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I know you're all happy to be back because everyone was early this morning.

We'll start off with our witnesses for the first portion of the program. From the Montreal Port Authority we have Sophie Roux, vice-president of public affairs, and Tony Boemi, vice-president of growth and development.

From the Mining Association of Canada we have Brendan Marshall, vice-president of economic and northern affairs.

Please keep your comments to five minutes so that the committee members have sufficient time for their questions.

8:50 a.m.

Sophie Roux Vice-President, Public Affairs, Montreal Port Authority

Thank you very much.

Madam Chair, ladies and gentlemen members of the committee, hello and thank you for having us this morning.

The Montreal Port Authority, or the MPA, also referred to as the Port of Montreal is Canada's second largest port and a diversified transshipment centre that handles all types of cargo, from dry bulk like grain, to liquid bulk and containerized and non-containerized general cargo. It is the only container port on the St. Lawrence River and the world's largest shipping lines serve it.

The Port of Montreal is also a unique intermodal hub in North America because it owns and operates its own rail network directly dockside, connecting it to the two national rail networks. The MPA also operates a cruise terminal.

Like Canada's other port authorities, the MPA is responsible for managing its port assets under the Canada Marine Act, but these assets must also support Canada in its growing commercial trade.

The Port of Montreal is the natural gateway to northern European markets, and we are already benefiting from the new Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, which came into force only a year ago. But Asian markets and emerging markets are also now significant parts of our container traffic, thanks to our diversification strategy that makes Canada more resilient to the vagaries of international trade.

Today, the port is connected to more than 140 countries and generates over 16,000 jobs and upwards of $2 billion in annual economic benefits. Every year, over $41 billion in cargo comes through our docks.

To be able to fully contribute to Canada's prosperity, port authorities must rely on: efficient transportation logistics chains; healthy infrastructure; innovation; and expanding their capacity. Our recommendations will cover those four themes.

For a port to be competitive and be able to grow, it must be supported by reliable and efficient land trade corridors. The Port of Montreal benefits from an intermodal chain that ensures fluidity in freight transport, but it's an ongoing effort. A great advantage of ours is the presence since 2013 of the only transportation and logistics industrial cluster in North America, CargoM, which brings together the top transport industry players to optimize Montreal's intermodal chain.

Here is our first recommendation: it is of paramount importance to protect and promote the optimization of land ties connecting a port to its markets. A port is nothing without road and rail access that make it possible to get cargo in and out fast.

I am now going to turn to my colleague, Mr. Boemi, to continue.

8:50 a.m.

Tony Boemi Vice-President, Growth and Development, Montreal Port Authority

Thank you, Sophie.

Good morning, everyone.

With regard to healthy infrastructure, all port authorities share the huge challenge of maintaining and optimizing aging infrastructure.

Maintaining docks and piers, optimizing our rail network and direct road access to the port, and developing new terminals are all projects that have been or must be carried out, and the investments required far exceed the revenues that we, as a port authority, can generate.

Financial assistance from private partners is mission critical, as it is from the various levels of government, except their assistance varies according to the programs in place.

We recommend the creation of a dedicated fund to optimize port infrastructures, attributable based on performance and environmental protection criteria.

With regard to innovation, the digital shift is happening globally and is forcing companies to adapt and innovate. Our role as a port authority puts us in a strategic position to provide digital solutions and to create value for our partners in their decision-making process.

The Port of Montreal already has several initiatives under way for this, and we can talk more about them later in our discussions.

We also recommend the creation of a national program and an innovation fund to help ports take the digital leap and give them the tools to do so. For ports to have a common strategy and to make Canada more competitive, dialogue and digital transformation must be managed as a whole.

Growing needs and market globalization stimulate trade, but they also raise port capacity issues. This is why, for example, we anticipate very soon the need to expand the port of Montreal by developing a new container terminal at Contrecoeur, Quebec. I'll give you some examples.

The port of Montreal currently has a capacity of roughly two million TEUs. We expect to finish this year at roughly 1.6 million. We anticipate, given the forecast, that we'll probably reach maximum capacity in roughly 2022 or 2023. From our perspective, it's really important that we have the infrastructure to maintain that continued growth. My boss likes to say that she doesn't want to put a “no vacancy” sign in front of the port of Montreal.

This is a major infrastructure project that will require more than $750 million in financing. However, it is a vital project for the economy of Quebec and eastern Canada that will enable local companies to keep trading with the world for decades to come.

For any large-scale port expansion project, we recommend respecting ports' individual skills and having a regional, as well as a national, vision of port development for the benefit of the entire economy of Canada.

We'll answer your questions.

Thank you very much.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Boemi.

We'll move to the Mining Association of Canada.

Mr. Marshall, you have five minutes, please.

8:55 a.m.

Brendan Marshall Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this important process.

My name is Brendan Marshall. I'm the vice-president, economic and northern affairs, at the Mining Association of Canada.

MAC is the national voice of Canada's mining and mineral processing industry, representing more than 40 members engaged in exploration, mining, smelting and semi-fabrication across a host of commodities.

Mining is a significant economic driver for Canada. In 2017, direct and indirect industry contributions generated $97 billion in GDP, 634,000 jobs and $97 billion in exports—one-fifth of Canada's total overall value. A consequence of this international reach is the sector's reliance on road, rail, marine and aviation services to both bring product to market and supply operations with critical inputs, including workers, fuel and equipment.

Proportionally, the mining industry is the largest industrial employer of indigenous Canadians. Mining is also the largest private sector driver in Canada's Arctic, where the industry accounts for one in six jobs and 15% to 20% of territorial GDP. In recent years, mining companies have invested, are investing, or have committed to invest more than $9 billion in the region.

The CTLS, Canadian transportation and logistics strategy, comes at a critical time. Domestic legislative and regulatory processes with implications for project permitting and costs persist, while recent supply chain failures have significantly damaged Canada's reputation as a reliable trade partner.

The impact of this uncertainty has been felt by Canada's mining industry, where investment has dropped more than 50%, or $68 billion, since 2014. This drop is amidst a strong price rebound for many commodities over the last three years.

As the government seeks to bolster Canada's economic competitiveness, enhancing trade-enabling infrastructure to diversify market access and rebalancing the relationship between Canada's railways and their customers will be critical for success.

I have two recommendations.

The first is to address the remote and northern infrastructure deficit.

The future of Canada's mining industry lies increasingly in remote and northern regions. One of the largest factors influencing mineral investment decisions in Canada's north is heightened costs. Industry research in the “Levelling the Playing Field” report indicates that it costs two to two and a half times more to build the same base or precious metal mine off-grid in the north—

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Marshall, could you slow down a little bit. I appreciate your trying to get through it, but the interpreters are having trouble keeping up with you. Just go a little bit slower.

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Brendan Marshall

They are? My apologies.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

It's not a problem.

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Brendan Marshall

It costs two to two and a half times more to build the same base or precious metal mine off-grid in the north compared to the south. Seventy per cent of this northern cost premium is directly related to the regional infrastructure deficit.

To date, infrastructure investment decisions that recognize northern challenges and opportunities through the trade and transportation corridors initiative and the investing in Canada plan have been welcome, though the need is far greater than the funds allocated. MAC is aware the northern allocation or $400 million under the TTCI was oversubscribed by greater than five times. Also concerning is that the Canada Infrastructure Bank may not recognize remote and northern realities, potentially limiting the utility of this institution to address northern priorities.

Enabling additional mining development in remote and northern Canada is inextricably linked to the government's indigenous reconciliation and climate change agendas, and the northern infrastructure deficit is the single largest barrier to mining development in the region. To address this, government should, as an immediate action, renew the TTCI in budget 2019, including the $400-million northern allocation, and as a long-term dedicated solution, establish a unique stand-alone Arctic infrastructure investment fund based on the Alaska Industrial Development and Export Authority that recognizes Arctic realities.

Let's move on to the second recommendation, which is to rebalance the relationship between Canada's railways and its customers. Trade begins at home, and Canada's ability to compete against other countries requires a reliable and cost-effective transportation system to get our goods to market. As the largest corporate customer group of Canada's class I railways, accounting for more than 50% of rail freight revenue in 2017, mining is a major stakeholder to transportation policy.

Canada's rail freight system operates primarily as a dual monopoly, shared by CN and CP, Canada's only class I railways. Communities and businesses are often captive, served by only one of these companies, which gives rail customers little or no competitive choice, and the railways market power over their customers. At core, this market power creates an imbalance between shippers and railways in the rail freight market, which contributes to the ongoing protracted relationship between shippers and railways.

The number of rail service-related consultations and legislative measures in recent years reflect the persisting challenges that rail customers face, as well as the failure of these legislative attempts to curtail railway market power. Most recently, Bill C-49, the Transportation Modernization Act, the third legislative attempt to address reoccurring rail freight service challenges in six years, was enacted. While the package of reforms went further than those of Minister Garneau's predecessors, like them, Bill C-49 fell short of rebalancing the position of railways and customers in the rail freight market.

On the backdrop of a costly and reputationally damaging supply chain disruption in winter 2018, the second such disruption in four years, MAC, in partnership with seven other resource shipping associations, advanced two recommendations to improve the bill. The first is agency own-motion powers, and the second is a shipper right to a costing assessment during the final offer arbitration process. One of those recommendations was watered down, and the second was rejected, and this despite the sober second thought of the Senate, twice over.

As of Friday of last week, I can report that none of the new bill's tools have been used since Bill C-49's enactment, despite their having been lauded by decision-makers as key solutions to the challenges that shippers face. Meanwhile, service challenges have been mounting in recent weeks, and shippers across the supply chain are growing increasingly concerned that costly and reputationally damaging supply chain disruption could occur again this winter, as occurred last.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Marshall, have you completed your remarks?

9 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Brendan Marshall

I have one final statement, if that's okay.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Please, go ahead.

9 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Brendan Marshall

To support greater balance in the rail freight market, in addition to revisiting the above two solutions, MAC recommends the committee support a robust, leading edge transportation data regime. Achieving this would not only enhance transparency in the transportation system, but also improve relations between shippers and transportation service providers, avoid unnecessary and costly disputes, and provide government with the tools necessary to identify, assess and resolve existing policy challenges.

Thank you for that extra time.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Marshall.

We're moving to Ms. Block for six minutes.

October 16th, 2018 / 9 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to welcome our witnesses here this morning.

I would also like to join our chair in welcoming the students who are here from the master's program in political management at Carleton University, as well as Professor Azzi. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoy our deliberations this morning.

Mr. Marshall, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciated your testimony. We had the opportunity of attending the Van Horne Institute Rail to Ports Conference last week, so many of the things that you have said this morning come as no surprise to me because I think we heard the same comments last Friday at the conference.

Before I ask my questions, I would like to also welcome our witnesses from the Montreal Port Authority. You have a champion at this table in Mr. Iacono. He has been urging us as a committee to get to the Port of Montreal to see your operations. It is my hope that we do manage to get there sometime during our study of the transportation logistics strategy.

Mr. Marshall, I want to give you just a little more time to talk about the impact of Bill C-49 on the mining industry in particular. You referenced two amendments that you had hoped would have been passed during our deliberations of Bill C-49, which we all know was a 10-year statutory review. Hearing what you've had to say is deeply concerning as we may not review that legislation for another 10 years if we follow the statutory cycle.

I'm wondering if you could provide us just a little more insight on that, and the robust, leading-edge data collection regime that you mentioned in your last statement. Perhaps, if you have some time, you could comment on Bill C-69 and the impact on the mining industry.

Thank you.

9 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

Brendan Marshall

Sure. I have just a couple of quick remarks on mining and rail generally. Too frequently, and recently especially, rail issues in this country have been falsely characterized as a dichotomy between grain shippers and the railways, and I think we need to move past that. The reality is that non-agricultural resources, minerals and metals specifically, represent over half of the total rail freight revenue, so if we see a precipitous decline in the volume of minerals and metals shipped, then the railways system itself will start to suffer. You would not be able to ship grain at the discounted rate at which it currently is shipped with the MRE without having a robust demand for traffic from other products, so we need to change that channel. That's the first thing I would say.

The second thing I would say is that there is an imbalance between shippers and railways in the rail freight market. I think that's a challenge with respect to the way in which some decision-makers approach addressing the issue. What I mean by that is this. Shippers are at an imbalance relative to the position that railways have in the rail freight market, so when you approach a piece of legislation to address an imbalance, you cannot take a balanced approach to the legislation.

I think in recent years, not just with respect to Bill C-49 but also with respect to previous attempts by the former government to address this issue, there has been this tendency that if we're going to do something for shippers, we also need to do something for railways, and if we're going to do something for shippers in this respect, then we need to make sure we have a balanced outcome. If you have a balanced bill, you will persist in reinforcing the imbalance between shippers and railways in their relative positions in the rail freight market. In this respect, I think what is really needed to address this imbalance is a greater level of political will and courage. I think that's a really important piece.

You asked me for a bit of information about the data regime. You will hear shippers and railways make a great number of claims. Shippers will say that they are not getting the service they need and that they are consistently being dismissed. If they're a captive shipper, they will say their service is such.

The reality is that we don't have any means of assessing the veracity of those claims. Railways consistently year over year come out and say they are spending 20% or 22% of their revenue. Do you know if that's enough for those companies? Should it be more? Does the system demand, based on traffic requirements, a greater level of investment?

The reality is you don't know. We don't know. Transport Canada doesn't know either. The only way we are ever going to get a clear assessment of what's actually happening in the rail freight market is if we get a really robust data transparency regime that allows us to understand where the traffic is moving, at what time, and with what commodities; where the investments are going, and whether they are going into the U.S., into Canada, into new developments, or just into maintaining existing infrastructure. None of these questions will we be able to answer until we get a very clear, data-driven picture of what's actually happening in the rail freight market. That picture would inform decision-makers such as you with a greater ability to delve into specific solutions where they're needed.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Marshall. You were very clear on that.

Mr. Iacono, go ahead for six minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank my colleague for her nice comments regarding the Port of Montreal.

I also thank the witnesses and the students for joining us.

My question is for the Port of Montreal representatives.

We recently marked the first anniversary of the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. Thanks to that agreement, we are strengthening our trade relationships, supporting our Canadian businesses and boosting our economy. For a player like the Port of Montreal, CETA means significant growth of marine transportation, so an increase in the number of ships and, in particular, the number of containers.

What measures has the Port of Montreal taken to meet the growing demand in terms of the logistics chain?

9:05 a.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, Montreal Port Authority

Sophie Roux

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

Thank you for supporting us and allowing us to appear before the committee.

We clearly need to have the capacity and the port space needed to accommodate more vessels and containers or to have more cargo coming and going. In fact, the Port of Montreal is a balanced port in terms of imports and exports, with each of those two activities accounting for about 50% of trade. However, the intermodal chain must also follow suit.

Increasing direct access to the port is one of the strategies used by the Port of Montreal, which takes care of vessels, but of much more as well. It ensures the fluidity of the intermodal, since that is a key element of competition. In order to be a viable alternative to American ports, our intermodal chain must be able to get goods in and out quickly.

The addition of direct road access to the Port of Montreal is one of the strategies we have used. We now have direct access through Highway 25, from the north to the south and from the south to the north. In addition, we want to add another access by extending Souligny Avenue, in Montreal. Recently, we worked in close collaboration with our terminal operators to extend the hours of operation to accommodate trucks. That enabled us to manage the increased traffic over the past few months.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

You mentioned the intermodal chain. How long does that take, once the goods have arrived?

9:10 a.m.

Vice-President, Growth and Development, Montreal Port Authority

Tony Boemi

If you're referring to dwell times in terms of when vessels stay, on average we have roughly two days of dwell, by rail or by truck.

We had some difficulties in the first part of the year because of the surge in business we received. As a result of that, the partners got together, which is why we have extended gate hours now. Whereas before the gates were open from 7 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., today they're open Monday to Friday from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. That has basically alleviated a lot of the congestion points.

We're also investing roughly $50 million into our rail infrastructure. Again, when you look at the train consists today, they're coming in much longer, at 12,000 feet to 14,000 feet. We've also developed some tools in terms of providing transport companies with advance information so that we can eliminate or anticipate congestion points or bottlenecks. These are some of the factors, some of the work, that we've done to meet this demand.

I should say, to everybody's credit, that in terms of CETA, since that announcement came in, we have had the Maersk line, which introduced a brand new service into Europe. Hamburg Süd, known for their South American services, also introduced a new service into Montreal for Europe. We anticipate that other carriers as well will be joining that in terms of putting a focus on European trade.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you.

How will the Contrecoeur Terminal be able to meet the various expectations in terms of growth and development?

9:10 a.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, Montreal Port Authority

Sophie Roux

We currently have four terminals for international containers on Montreal Island. At optimal capacity, that enables us to receive 2.1 million TEU containers. Last year, we received 1.6 million containers. In 2016, we created the fourth and last container terminal we can develop on Montreal Island—the Viau Terminal. That terminal will be developed in two stages. The second stage will begin soon, as that terminal is being filled up much faster than anticipated.

The expansion of the Port of Montreal at Contrecoeur meets the need for additional capacity not only right now, but in the near future. We actually estimate that we will need additional space to receive containerized cargo as of the middle of the next decade, so around 2023-2024. The considerable reserve we have at Contrecoeur—468 hectares of land—will be developed in three stages. The Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency is currently conducting an environmental assessment of the first stage, which would give the Port of Montreal an additional capacity of 1.15 million TEU containers. We already estimate that the completion of a second stage and a third stage will allow us to reach the capacity to process 3.5 million additional containers.

The expansion of the Port of Montreal at Contrecoeur gives us capacity for decades to come.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

For the Port of Montreal to be the second largest, you must surely use technology to make it into a smart port.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Be very brief, Mr. Iacono.