Transport Committee on Oct. 30th, 2018

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

This talks about Nav Canada. So you don't know whether or not Nav Canada.... I'd like to have the information on whether or not—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. I appreciate the questions, but the time is up.

Mr. Liepert, go ahead.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

I'm going to direct my questions to Nav Canada.

I represent a Calgary riding, and we are a good half hour's drive from the airport. In my first year as a member of Parliament, the complaints about aircraft noise in my constituency were zero, but then we had a new runway open in Calgary. Can you tell my constituents, for the record, why they now have aircraft noise when they're not even in the vicinity of the Calgary airport?

[Neil Wilson]

Do you want to address the specifics of Calgary?

[Jonathan Bagg]

Sure. The biggest change that happened in Calgary, obviously, was subsequent to the addition of a new runway. It was important for the airport to be able to accommodate its growth. That resulted in airspace redesign.

Being 30 kilometres from the airport seems quite far, especially when you think of terrestrial transportation like taking a car. For an aircraft, it's not that far. When you look at how planes have to arrive at an airport, you see that they use a system of published routes. Just as a car has to use a road, we have roadways in the sky for planes arriving at the airport. They have to be situated in a way that allows us to manage all the traffic.

Over your area, Signal Hill, for instance, there is one of those routes. There are multiple routes to the airport, and air traffic controllers are managing aircraft from multiple directions. One of the reasons why it is where it is is that it's like hitting a target. The closer that route is to the runway, the easier it is for the controller to do their timings.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I think what my constituents don't understand is that if you go a mile to the west, you're over ranchland. Can you explain how Nav Canada comes up with its routes—I think that's the term you used—when it seems like you're redirecting a new route over an existing residential area when you have nothing but farmland a mile over?

[Jonathan Bagg]

Sure, absolutely.

Of course, when you look to the west of the city, there's green or agricultural space and it seems obvious. It is very much about sequencing and managing traffic. We use Transport Canada's approved design criteria, internationally used design criteria, so there are a lot of standards that are applied in terms of designing airspace, which is a key piece.

To the question of why it can't just be shifted further west, that goes to timing. What controllers do is turn the aircraft toward the runway for final approach. They have to get to a place where they can line up with the runway to land. If you put that down too far from the airport, it's hard for the air traffic controller to do the timing.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

The reality of that approach is that it's parallel to the runway. It seems to me that the turn thing.... I know we're getting into the weeds here, but another mile over would....

One of the things I've been told is that some of the night noise comes from noisy Russian aircraft or whatever. What controls does Nav Canada have over foreign aircraft coming in and out of our airports with regard to complying with our domestic rules?

[Neil Wilson]

We're not a policeman. We facilitate the safety and efficiency of flight. With regard to aircraft that come in, we have an obligation to bring them in and to make sure that it's safe, that they're separated from other aircraft and that they come in.

We have some moral suasion with operators, but frankly, that only goes so far. We have no mandate, no legal ability, to restrict their flight.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Does anybody?

[Sara Wiebe]

I think this is where I'll turn to my colleague, Mr. Robinson.

[Nicholas Robinson, Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport]

We do have requirements with regard to the safety and security of aircraft landing in our Canadian airports.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Yes, but does that take into account noise?

[Nicholas Robinson]

It does not take noise into account specifically.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

It doesn't sound like there's any governance over foreign aircraft noise coming into our commercial airports.

[Nicholas Robinson]

Our primary responsibility is to make sure that there are safe and secure aircraft landing in our airports, and noise isn't a specific criterion.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I'll direct it to Nav Canada.

Who has control over helicopters?

[Neil Wilson]

If you mean their navigation and the management of traffic, we do.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I think I get as many complaints about helicopter noise, especially police helicopters, as I do about commercial aircraft. Does Nav Canada do helicopters?

[Neil Wilson]

There's a joint accountability for airspace management in the sense that the airspace is divided into different types of airspace with regard to what's allowable in different sectors of the air. If it's permitted, they're going to be flying there.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

If someone wants to operate a helicopter at any time of the day in any part of the city, that operator doesn't need any kind of permission from anybody to do it.

[Neil Wilson]

No, they need clearances within certain airspace, but we give clearances to make sure that the flight is safe. They can only fly in certain airspace. For example, here in Ottawa, there's a restricted airspace above Parliament Hill. There are different airspace classifications that allow certain forms of flight with certain equipped aircraft in certain airspace.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Do you know if Calgary has any of those restrictions?

[Neil Wilson]

It absolutely would. As to what the specifics are in any particular location, I'd have to get back to you on that.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Would the police have to see to those requirements as well?