Transport Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[Heather Grondin]

There are two components to our community benefits plan.

The first is a workforce development and participation strategy. We have not assigned a dollar amount to that. Instead, through consultation we'll identify specific goals that are to be achieved and initiatives that will be undertaken to ensure there is local workforce development and local contractor participation in the project.

The second component is a neighbourhood infrastructure strategy, which is budgeted at $20 million.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, but neighbourhood infrastructure is one thing. Is that going to include purchasing the properties in Detroit or Windsor for hardship? There are families being impacted by new transportation routes that rest in their communities.

[Heather Grondin]

Currently, acquiring additional property is not within the definition of our community benefits plan.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

How much has been spent? You're coming for more money in the estimates. How much has been spent to date on community benefits?

[Heather Grondin]

We have not yet begun our community benefits program. That is part of the project.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With the money you are being allocated here from the supplementary estimates (A), how much will go to community benefits?

[Heather Grondin]

The money identified in the supplementary estimates (A) is not part of our community benefits. We do, however, undertake a number of activities through WDB that directly and positively impact the community, such as our participation in community events, ensuring the community is knowledgeable about the project through our—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's public relations. That's not community benefits. That's a different thing.

When exactly can we see some community benefits? There is major disruption in Sandwich Town and Delray. You're talking about a contract you signed for $5.7 billion. How much exactly...?

You're claiming to save half a billion with regard to the P3, but you're here today to tell us that with all these estimates, there is still no money for community benefits. Despite bulldozing two neighbourhoods and all the congestion, the traffic and the business loss, all those things, we're still not going to see a single dollar for community benefits under the agreement that's been signed in Delray and in Windsor. Is that correct?

[Bryce Phillips]

What I'd offer is that it's not business lost, it's an opportunity and business gained from this project. I don't see that what we're doing right now is going to be negative. It's going to be positive.

Pre-construction activities have begun on both sides of the border, and part of the obligations contractually with Bridging North America is to do community benefits on both sides of the border, so you'll see that as the construction—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Well, you might see it that way, but if you have an existing business where you've lost a number of different customers, traffic has been rerouted and there are other problems, they don't see that. They can't hang on that long. As well, the kids going to General Brock school do not get anything from this. They can't hang on that long.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Masse, thank you very much. I'm sorry. There is no opportunity to respond right now.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, guests.

I'm going to focus my questions around the infrastructure program. The bilateral agreement signed between the federal government and each of the provinces and territories clearly outlines that the federal government is willing to support small communities with even greater levels of funding. Coming from small-town Newfoundland and Labrador, I truly appreciate that.

For towns with less than 5,000 people, we have committed to covering the majority of the municipal share of costs under the rural and northern funding stream. This leaves small towns responsible for only 7% of the total cost of the project, which is significantly more affordable than 33%.

Can you elaborate on why we have taken this approach? What are the objectives for increasing the share of the cost?

Do we monitor these agreements to ensure that all partners are living up to the conditions of the agreements?

[Kelly Gillis]

Certainly when we were looking at the capacity and needs within smaller communities, we saw that there are varying opportunities. We wanted to make sure that smaller communities could avail themselves of important work that needed to be done, so the government made a decision to increase the federal share to 60% for smaller communities. It is up to 60%.

That allows smaller communities to not have as much of a burden when looking at projects needed for water treatment, roads, food security and broadband, those types of important projects that are required in our rural and remote areas.

We also have four streams within our integrated bilateral agreements. One of them is a $2-billion stream for rural and remote communities where a lot of our smaller communities exist. So there are some dedicated funds for smaller communities to access and avail themselves of funding to support projects in their areas.

All 13 of the integrated bilateral agreements have now been signed. Projects are starting to come through to be approved. We've posted all 13 integrated bilateral agreements on our website. On the bottom of the web page, there is a barometer. You'll be able to see under phase one and phase two, because we also had integrated bilateral agreements or bilateral agreements with phase one. You can see the progress that's being made within those particular agreements as projects are getting approved.

On top of that, you can go in and look at any particular community—we have a geospatial map—and see all of the projects happening within a particular community for all of our agreements. We do monitor them, and as they're coming through the process they come to us and to Marc's team for review and then go up to the minister for approval. As soon as they are announced, we post them on our website to make sure that they are transparent to all Canadians.

[Churence Rogers]

Specifically, how much of the $2 billion allocated for rural and northern communities over the 10 years has been allocated or spent so far?

[Kelly Gillis]

I'll ask Marc to look up the exact amount for the rural and remote areas on the spending, but the integrated bilateral agreements were just signed recently, and the projects are coming through now. Provinces and territories, with this particular program, because it's a 10-year program, which is different from some of our programs before, have been provided a longer time frame to make sure they can plan and prioritize their needs. We're asking communities to give us three-year rolling plans so we don't see project by project, but we understand the priorities and the intake process, and we have a longer horizon of understanding what's going on. As part of our integrated bilateral agreements, that process is under way right now.

[Churence Rogers]

In your department's view, what has been the biggest obstacle that the federal government has had in overcoming projects and getting them completed in a timely manner? Is it because of the delays in signing bilateral agreements or because the project's not shovel ready?

[Kelly Gillis]

If I look back since this government has been elected, we've had 4,400 projects across the country from phase one, phase two and from our legacy programs, so there are a number of projects under way across the country right now. Since that time, there are 763 projects that have been started and completed across the country in all provinces and territories. There is a significant amount of activity within infrastructure that is happening across the country right now.

[Churence Rogers]

I guess I'm out of time.

I just want to say thank you for that information. I know there's been a lot of suggestions as to delays and so on, but thank you for filling in that information for me. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you all for being here this morning.

Infrastructure Canada, on the experience so far, can you give us a quick overview of what the plan was to have money out the door by this time versus what has actually happened, what we've been able to disburse?

[Kelly Gillis]

There has been a lot of talk about delays or disbursements, and when we look at infrastructure, we have, as I said, 4,400 projects that have been approved and that are under way across the country in the last three years. The economic activity starts with our approval. That's when contracts can get let. That's when people can hire. That's when projects begin and work is undertaken within the country.

The conversations that we've had about cash flow and re-profiling are more of an accounting and a lagging indicator, in my perspective, because when we have the 763 projects that I mentioned that have been completed or that are about half a billion dollars, we've only been billed for 50% of those, and those are the projects that have been completed.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Are we getting projects up and running as quickly as we thought we were going to?

[Kelly Gillis]

We are getting projects up and running and approvals in place, as with 4,400 projects and—