Transport Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[Nick Boud]

History has shown that if you leave both airports open, a lot of the air carriers will not want to relocate, because relocation is a significant cost to them and their business. The first airport tends to have the best connections and the greatest value to them.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We move on to Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have two minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Boud, the witnesses we received were essentially complaining about the lack of accountability and transparency on the part of our airport authorities. The optics it gives is that Canada is trailing behind in terms of noise management.

How do Canadian airports compare to airports in other countries in terms of noise management? How are noise advisory committees organized in other countries compared to Canada's?

[Nick Boud]

In the few days that I've been working in Canada, I would certainly say that Canada has come to the noise mitigation topic later than a lot. Europe and Australia have been looking at this for many more years. The U.S. also, to some extent, is ahead of Canada on this. I only have one real airport to focus on, because that's where I spend most of my effort here, which is Toronto Pearson, and they have made huge steps from where they were when I first came over here.

As to how the committees look, again, the best practice report did look at the structure of committees. There were some recommendations in there. I know that the GTAA is briefing the public this evening at their quarterly meeting about changes to the structure to try to become closer to the best practice that we've looked at across the 26 airports. There is learning to be had, and that can be implemented.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Graham, you have two minutes.

Then we can get to Mr. Jeneroux for two minutes and that will be the end. We have committee business. I'm sorry.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

The time I have is equivalent to about the wake turbulence gap between two planes, so I'll try to be quick. I have two totally different questions.

First, can passengers make ticketing decisions that affect airplane noise? Is there anything they can do when they are buying their tickets to influence when, where and how planes fly?

[Nick Boud]

Certainly, passengers could choose not to take night flights, as an example, and to travel during the day. That would be one situation such as that, yes.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

The other side of this is that you talked about the 30-year life cycle for aircraft, more or less. What's the noisiest part of a plane?

[Nick Boud]

It depends on which stage of flight you're talking about. For departures, it is the engines. For arrival, it is the body of the aircraft. It's the air rushing over the aircraft that makes more noise than the engines on the final part of the descent.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

How do you compare the plane noise of, say, a 787 to that of a 707 or a 747?

[Nick Boud]

There are generations of difference between them. If you could put a 707 back at Toronto Pearson and then fly in a 787 behind it, nobody would dispute the fact that they have become significantly quieter.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

We've talked a lot about the A320 fix. Can you describe what the fix actually is?

[Nick Boud]

The problem is that there are vents in the underside of that wing and the wind rockets over it, a bit like blowing over the top of a bottle. It is a small piece of metal that has to be attached just ahead of that hole so as to disrupt the airflow so that you do not get that humming-whistling noise as the air goes over the hole.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Do you know how much it costs to fix it?

[Nick Boud]

I don't. I've had different values quoted because different airlines have different maintenance agreements with Airbus. Some people quote $5,000 or $7,000. The cost of the piece is small compared with the cost of taking the aircraft out of service. You have to drain the fuel to be able to fit it, but that is not major compared with the cost of replacing an aircraft.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Jeneroux.

[Matt Jeneroux]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to use the two minutes allotted to me just to clarify my intent from the previous witness and the point of order. It certainly wasn't my intention to challenge the chair. I appreciate all that you do in terms of the good nature of our committee. I feel that we work quite well together for the majority of the time.

However, I think it's important that we on this side are able to continue to ask the questions. You in your role don't need to be protective of the minister in any form or fashion whatsoever.

I just want to read into the record a brief quote from page 1078 in chapter 20 of practices, policies and procedures:

There are no specific rules governing the nature of questions which may be put to witnesses appearing before committees, beyond the general requirement of relevance to the issue before the committee. Witnesses must answer all questions which the committee puts [before] them.

It states further:

The actions of a witness who refuses to answer questions may be reported to the House.

Again, I want to make sure that this committee continues to work together. I know that you had a piece of paper in front of you ready to quote the order you referred to. However, again, I would hate to see us come back in the new year and not remain in the friendly fashion that we've continued up to this point.

I just leave those comments there, Madam Chair, in further clarifying my point of order. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Jeneroux.

There are no pressing questions that we actually have to get done.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

If I might, I have just one quick question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You can have a very short question, because we have committee business.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You mentioned Schiphol in your study, but other than Schiphol, Pearson had the highest number of night flights of any airport that was part of that study, three times more than Heathrow. Was there any particular reason that the study had no recommendations or suggestion that GTAA should reduce the number of night flights, or night flights per night as they have in the annual budget?