Transport Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I represent the constituency of Longueuil—Saint-Hubert. This is a little biased on my part, but it was Pratt & Whitney that invented the PT6 turboprop, which is man’s best friend after the dog and the horse. They also developed the PurePower engine, which, as you said, is extremely effective in reducing noise.

Are you going to be able to equip your fleet with that engine? You tell me that Boeing uses a consortium engine. Do you have PurePower engines in your housings?

[Murray Strom]

I'd have to go back to our maintenance division to check. The new Bombardier airplane, the A220, which is the C Series, is built in Montreal. It has a Pratt & Whitney engine. I'm going to have to check the the engine manufacturer on the 737. Unfortunately, I fly the 777, which is the big one. I've been involved with the 737, but I'll have to check back with maintenance on it.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Wilson, has Westjet Airlines acquired quieter engines, like the PurePower?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

With our fleets, particularly with the Boeing 737, there's only one engine variable. That's the LEAP-1B engine. It basically is a 40% reduction in the noise footprint compared to the aircraft that we purchased only 10 years earlier. Although not PurePower and not a product that way, it is one of the quietest engines. It's the only engine you can get on the 737 MAX, but it's a very quiet engine.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

With these engines being more quiet, either the PurePower or the other engine that you're talking about, are they also much more fuel-efficient?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

Yes, they're roughly 20% more fuel-efficient than the engines they're replacing.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's outstanding.

I would like to ask you a question about noise management. I am from Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, and you can be sure that I am well aware of the problems with noise from flight schools. A number of witnesses have said that Transport Canada has kind of left noise management to the communities or to the not-for-profit organizations that run the airports.

Would you like Transport Canada to better regulate those activities and establish standards for noise? I am thinking, for example, about the requests that people living near the Dorval airport made this spring. They complained that noise monitors were being installed as the airport saw fit.

If Transport Canada were to establish standards and more centralized regulation, would that help to ease those ongoing conflicts? When you live next to an airport, of course, you know that there will be noise. But would certain measures not be better enforced if Transport Canada were more involved?

[Murray Strom]

I have the pleasure to fly to most of the major airports in the world. I can say that the noise abatement procedures of Transport Canada, Nav Canada and the local airport authorities are some of the strictest in the world.

You have certain countries that don't have any at all, because aviation is number one to them in the Middle East, but throughout Europe and most of North America, including Canada, they have very thorough procedures. Our pilots are trained on every single departure. They brief the procedures and they follow the procedures. If they don't, we're quickly made aware of it.

[Capt Scott Wilson]

I would agree with Murray's comments. When I take a look at Transport Canada's engagement, particularly with the airport authorities and Nav Canada and the airlines in Canada, I think we have a unique system here. We work together.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay.

So you are acknowledging that this is in fact a community organizing to solve the problems of being next to the airport, rather than waiting for the government to become involved. Right?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

Having lived under an airport flight path myself for many years, I certainly understand how the communities feel. Just as a starting point, one thing I will point out is that I lived under the departure end of runway 20 in Calgary, and compared to 20 years ago, the noise has almost disappeared.

Communities can and should have a say in the system as well, but we obviously have to find some impartial way of determining what is the right balance, looking at the efficiencies and the investment versus the requirements to keep an arrival rate up to maintain an efficiency coming into an airport and to continue to provide Canadians with the travel that they expect.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Elfassy, you told my colleague Mr. Graham that you do not provide compensation for noise caused by aircraft.

However, since you provide the opportunity of offsetting the carbon footprint, is the company that benefits from you buying its carbon credits accountable to Air Canada?

To whom is it accountable for the real use of the money invested by your customers?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, gentlemen, but you've gone over time, so there's not sufficient time—

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Sorry about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

—to answer. Perhaps we can get that answer back to the member through the meeting or after the meeting.

Go ahead, Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the representatives of the airline companies here this morning.

My question goes to both companies.

In your opinion, is there a correlation between the noise pollution caused by aircraft and cardiac illness in adults, or chronic stress?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

With all due respect, based on my background as a pilot, I don't know if I'd be the appropriate one to give you an answer on that. I don't know if there's any correlation as you've described.

[Murray Strom]

I echo Scott's comments. I'm very good at flying airplanes, but not good at health effects. I leave that to my doctor. I'm sorry.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

However, you are aware of all the studies that have been done on health problems, correct?

Perhaps you are not in a position to describe or confirm the correlation, but are you, or are you not, aware that there is one?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

I'm aware of numerous papers out there that have tried to provide correlations. I'm not sure of the validity of the science. Again, I don't think I'm a fair one to comment on such things.

[Murray Strom]

I have read the World Health Organization's paper and I've read the papers that don't agree with it. I'll have to leave this up to the experts.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Have you received any comments, complaints or grievances from your pilots on this noise problem, or is it not an issue for them?

[Capt Scott Wilson]

Having grown up in this great country through many levels of aviation in Canada and over the years, I've certainly operated aircraft that have been a lot noisier than the ones that I operate now.

When we brought the Boeing 737 MAX into Canada a year ago, my first experience operating it was that I noticed how quiet it was on the flight deck and in the cabin, as well as the benefits that we see on the ground. The nice thing is that the new aircraft with new technologies are quieter on the ground and over the communities where they fly, and they're a much better experience on board for our passengers and guests as well as for the crew members who operate them. We see the benefits as well.

[Murray Strom]

I agree with Scott and his comments. We actively monitor our aircraft inside the flight deck. If a pilot raises a concern about the noise in the flight deck, we'll do a study on the flight deck to ensure that the noise level is where it should be. If it's slightly elevated, we'll provide the pilots with noise-cancelling headsets to eliminate the noise.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Strom, in your opening comments you made a reference to the noise being different in the last 20 or 25 years. Is that what your comments were?