Transport Committee on Feb. 7th, 2019

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to jump in and with the 30 seconds I have left quickly ask Ms. Bell a question.

If the government were to subsidize training to help students become pilots, but then they had a return of service, that they had to serve in Canada or maybe with Canadian airlines, is this something that's possible? Would you be open to something like that?

[Heather Bell]

Absolutely. One of the recommendations is that there be some student loan forgiveness for time spent as a flight instructor or flying in a northern and remote community. Certainly you've heard a lot about how schools are having trouble retaining instructors.

Also, I have fear that here in the province of British Columbia, one of the first places we're going to see the drop-off in our pilots are in those areas that are servicing remote communities. I have a fear that we are going to see some unfortunate incidents happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bell.

We'll move to Mr. Fuhr.

[Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, witnesses, for coming today.

I want to thank Ms. Bell. I used your letter. I got dozens of letters on this topic, and I used yours in its entirety in my remarks in the House.

Something that hasn't come up is we're losing a significant amount of the limited capacity we have due to foreign entities buying Canadian flight schools or foreign students coming here to get trained by Canadian flight schools and then leave. I want some feedback on that.

Ms. Bell, could you wade in on that issue?

[Heather Bell]

Certainly in British Columbia we see a very high number of foreign students. When I speak to my members who are flight training unit operators, they don't see that as a problem in that those students are not taking spots that other students could be taking. More of a problem is getting the Canadian students in the pipeline to begin with. You have people there with the flight training unit who may have a different experience, but here in B.C., we're not seeing the uptake.

There is a further issue. I want to mention something about immigration and bringing in pilots from other countries. Some of our members would very much like to do that but they stumble across immigration rules that require that pilots coming into Canada not just meet the regulatory standards for being a pilot but also there is no real framework for how pilots should be hired from offshore.

They are considered to be like an engineer such that hours have to be guaranteed at 40 hours a week, a Monday-to-Friday type of job. These are not the kinds of jobs that people are hiring for. I wanted to have an opportunity to throw that out there. We don't see the intake of foreign students as a problem or as taking spots that Canadian students would take otherwise.

[Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Armstrong, has the military looked at what future air crew training looks like, how that's going to be delivered? Do you think that, given both the domestic need and the global need for pilots, it could be structured in a way that it could incorporate some excess capacity to train civilians or accommodate a surge in production of pilots for the military and when that was no longer needed, we then...civilians.... It's complex and it's thinking outside the box, but given where we are and what we have to do, do you think that's possible? How do you think that would look?

[Joseph Armstrong]

If you look at NATO flying training in Canada, which is the existing military flying training program, when it was crafted, it was created within the context of international contribution and international involvement from the get-go. Right now it's partly due to try to generate revenue to subsidize the cost of operating the training centre. The training centre is expensive because you're now operating military aircraft that have a different price point from what you would see on the civil aviation side.

Certainly I think the approach of building tailored flight training programs is what we need to be targeting because the idea of saying you're going to have a fixed cost base that you need to operate to be able to deliver a training service.... If I can build that fixed cost base that has variable capacity, then the ability to inject participation by other students, whether or not that's civilian or from foreign nations, absolutely goes a long way in being able to amortize that cost.

Certainly I think the mindset we need to have as Canadians—and we certainly see this within our company—and the success we've had globally is that the solution to these problems involves a global mindset. If we look at anything in isolation from the complete ecosystem of pilot training, then you're only looking at one piece of the problem and the solution is much larger than that.

Even the conversation about are foreign students in Canada creating problems or is it possible to bring in foreign instructors to supplement Canadian instructors, think about it in the inverse. The demand we see for pilot production and pilot training requirements is so high globally that it is creating a draw on Canadian capacity.

I go back to what the others have said and suggest we need to focus on a few things. One is building tailored competency-based training programs, and two, really focusing on and emphasizing the ability to recruit active students.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Armstrong.

Thank you, Mr. Fuhr.

We'll move to Ms. Block for four minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want to thank you, and I appreciate the committee's indulgence as I take a few moments to move a motion regarding aviation safety, which was circulated to the members of the committee on January 2.

I'll give you a bit of back story. Nearly two years ago, on June 8, 2017, 21-year-old Alex, along with his girlfriend Sidney, rented a single-engine Piper Warrior from a flight school in Lethbridge, Alberta, and headed for Kamloops, B.C. Alex, being a certified pilot, flew the light aircraft, with Sidney as the sole passenger. After refuelling in Cranbrook, they departed but never arrived at their destination. An 11-day search was conducted over a vast area. During this 11-day period, 18 Royal Canadian Air Force and civil search and rescue aircraft flew a total of 576 hours and covered approximately 37,513 square kilometres. On average, 10 aircraft were deployed each day, with more than 70 Royal Canadian Air Force personnel and 137 volunteer pilots and spotters from civil search and rescue. Despite this extensive search and rescue mission, they were unable to find Alex, Sidney and their aircraft. It was at the end of this extensive search that Alex's father and stepmother, Matthew Simons and Natalie Lindgren, were notified that the emergency locator transmitter, ELT, on board the aircraft failed to activate, thus making the plane impossible to find. Sadly, this happens in 38% of crashes.

ELTs are emergency transmission devices that are carried on board most aircraft. In the event of a crash, ELTs send distress signals on designated frequencies to help search and rescue locate the aircraft and its passengers. ELTs operate on two frequencies: 121.5 megahertz and 406 megahertz.

Since 2009, ELTs that operate at 121.5 megahertz are no longer monitored by satellite systems and are therefore ineffective. However, they are still mandated. Since June 2016, the Transportation Safety Board has put forward seven recommendations with regard to modernizing ELTs, but to date, these recommendations have not been acted upon. In many aircraft accidents, the ELT, if there is one, is damaged to the point that no distress signal can be sent. As a result, a number of light aircraft are never found. This was the case for Alex and Sidney, and it's the case for many others like them.

With this motion, I believe that we have the opportunity to help grieving parents like Matthew and Natalie by undertaking a short study that will help us to better understand the issue and make recommendations to Transport Canada. In particular, the motion requests that the committee look at the benefits, for search and rescue purposes, of using GPS technology that allows an aircraft's position to be determined via satellite navigation and periodically broadcast to a remote tracking system. The idea is that a GPS would be used in conjunction with a modern 406 megahertz ELT on light aircraft.

The chair of the Transportation Safety Board, Kathy Fox, has pointed out that when an aircraft crashes, it needs to be located quickly so that survivors can be rescued. The information that a simple GPS system could provide would empower search and rescue to respond quickly when a crash occurs, and would reduce lengthy searches for lost aircraft, thus saving lives and tax dollars.

In closing, I believe that together we have the opportunity to initiate a very important study in honour of Alex and Sidney, and I hope that all members of the committee would support this motion.

Thank you so much for allowing me to take this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I have a couple of speakers. Please note the time. The next committee is prepared to come in at 1:00 p.m., so our time is very tight.

I have Mr. Graham, Mr. Aubin and Ms. Leitch. Please keep your comments brief.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I understand your motion and your intent. I think if we look at the intent of the motion, it is, quite frankly, to improve methods to ensure recovery of missing aircraft. That's the objective, right?

The motion is very prescriptive. I can't support the motion the way it's written, but I am willing to propose an amendment that I have put to your motion: “That the Committee conduct a study for the duration of 4-6 meetings, on:”—that's what you have—and from the colon all the way from (a) through to (e), we'd replace that with “improved methods to ensure recovery of missing aircraft, particularly in general aviation.”

I'd further amend it to remove the idea of reporting within four months, because we have quite a bit on the agenda for this committee at this time.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Obviously, it's an important issue. I won't oppose the motion.

I would, however, like to know whether you think the study should follow what we already have planned. For instance, a passenger rail study has been in the works for months. It had unanimous committee support.

If we tack the study on at the end, in terms of what's already on our plate, that's fine, but if we bump work that's already planned to accommodate the study, I think that's a problem.

I'd like to know where you stand on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, there's no question that we do have a full schedule. We have supplementary estimates coming up. We have to finish off two other reports and we have committed to four meetings on bus safety and a couple of meetings on rail safety. Those are things we've already committed to, so I would suggest that if the committee adopts either of the motions, it would start when we have completed what we currently have on the agenda.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

The passenger rail study is one of the items already on the agenda, isn't it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes.

Ms. Leitch.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm commenting on this from my perspective of being a former minister of labour. I had heard from many families, as well as pilots and other professionals within the industry, the need for safety regulations, but also specifically for technology that would augment the safety and the ability of not just families but also the professionals working in the area to modernize the industry. The one thing I will say is that this industry modernization is required, this case being evidence alone, let alone the other cases that have taken place.

We as Canadians use GPS every day. My brother and sister, Michael and Melanie, use it to make sure they know where their children are. We could use this to make sure that families similar to Alex's and Sidney's families, are able to find their loved ones, hopefully so that they can actually be rescued and taken care of in a hospital, but if nothing else, for the families to have closure.

I recognize there is an amendment on the floor with regard to this motion, but the use of modern technology such as GPS and others is something that is fundamental to this motion. I'm sure you use it in your car to get home on occasion. Thus I would encourage the government to consider that those specific pieces of technology that we use every single day be things that we should be encouraging and facilitating for pilots and other people in the aviation industry to use as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ms. Leitch.

Mr. Graham.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

My only point is that having the study include its conclusion is not how a study works. The study is on how to improve the recovery, not here's a solution to figure it out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Graham.

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

Thank you all very much.

The meeting is adjourned.