Transport Committee on April 4th, 2019

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call to order this meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we're doing a study of bus passenger safety.

I am pleased to see our witnesses here from the Department of Transport. Kevin Brosseau is Assistant Deputy Minister of Safety and Security. Thank you for coming back again.

We also have Michael DeJong, Director General of Multimodal and Road Safety Programs.

Mr. Brosseau, we'll open it up to you for five minutes, please; that will leave ample time for questions from the committee members.

[Kevin Brosseau, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to discuss Transport Canada's initiatives to enhance bus passenger safety.

As mentioned, I am joined today by Michael DeJong. He is the Director General of Transport Canada's Multimodal and Road Safety Branch.

At the outset, I would like to emphasize that Transport Canada will not hesitate to take every action to protect Canadians on our roads. The importance of this commitment was underscored with the January 2019 collision involving a transit bus in Ottawa, and in the context of the 2018 Humboldt tragedy.

My thoughts and prayers remain with those families as we approach the one-year anniversary of that tragedy.

To strengthen passenger bus safety, the Minister of Transport raised this important topic with the Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety at their meeting on January 21, 2019. As a result, the ministers agreed to task officials with a series of action items to strengthen bus occupant safety—namely, developing a national standard for entry-level training for commercial drivers, including bus drivers, by January 2020, as well as finalizing a technical standard for electronic logging devices by this spring, a technology that will help track the hours of commercial drivers, such as motorcoach drivers, to reduce the risk of fatigue.

Passenger bus safety in Canada is a shared responsibility amongst all levels of government and bus operators. Transport Canada's role is to establish specific safety requirements set out in the Canada motor vehicle safety standards, such as brake systems and emergency exit requirements. Provinces and territories enforce safety and prescribe rules of the road, such as speed limits and vehicle licences.

Transport Canada works closely with provinces and territories and key partners to advance a cohesive, national approach to these issues.

This coordinated approach to passenger bus safety includes concerted efforts to address the Transportation Safety Board's recommendations stemming from the VIA Rail-OC Transpo collision in 2013. Statistics drawn from the national collision database show that driver behaviour is the leading contributing factor in fatal collisions in this country, with speeding accounting for 23%, distraction 22%, and impairment representing 19%.

Transport Canada's efforts to improve commercial bus safety extend beyond the structure of the bus. Specifically, the department is taking a comprehensive, multipronged approach to commercial passenger bus safety that includes efforts to address structural crashworthiness, crash avoidance, human factors and vulnerable road users outside the bus. For instance, in February of this year, the department published comprehensive guidelines to reduce the risk of driver distraction from in-vehicle displays.

We have also completed a review of accident data from urban centres to support the potential development of a standard for crashworthiness. We have also worked with industry to develop a comprehensive research plan to look at new technologies that can help protect bus passengers in the event of a collision. Recognizing that collision avoidance is the key to saving lives, the department published a regulation in June 2017 to mandate electronic stability control in heavy vehicles like motorcoaches and school buses. This will improve driver control and help prevent rollovers.

These efforts were further reinforced in July 2018, when the department published a regulation making seat belts mandatory in highway buses. As part of this regulatory initiative, Transport Canada also introduced technical manufacturing requirements for when school bus operators choose to install seat belts on their school buses. Recognizing that technology evolves and we can never be safe enough, Transport Canada is always searching for ways to strengthen road safety. We're working with partners to take a fresh look at existing and potential new measures to further strengthen school bus safety, with an emphasis on seat belts. In particular, we've established a task force bringing together federal, provincial and territorial government representatives, as well as safety associations, manufacturers, operators and school board representatives, to examine bus standards and operations, both inside and outside the bus.

The safety of all road users continues to be a top priority for Transport Canada, and the department is steadfast in its commitment to continue working with key partners in order to sustain momentum in this area.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

We look forward to taking your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brosseau.

We'll go on to Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to welcome our witnesses here today. I enjoyed the presentation by the TSB on Tuesday, and I certainly recognize the different roles you play at Transport Canada and the TSB.

I want to go back and ask you some questions about the study that was done in 1984. As we all know, back in the fall, CBC's The Fifth Estate issued a statement or a story on the issue of seat belts on school buses. It prompted a lot of concern and discussion on the subject. They referenced the 1984 Transport Canada study. It came under some scrutiny at the time. I'm wondering, given all the technological changes that have occurred in vehicles, whether that report's findings are still valid.

[Kevin Brosseau]

Before answering the question in terms of 1984, which I'll turn over to my colleague, who is very steeped in that data, I will say that we know seat belts provide another layer of safety. School buses, which are built very robustly, provide a number of safety features. In fact, they are the safest vehicles on the road, given all the safety features that are included in them. We know that seat belts are an important part of that. That's why the task force has been struck—to look at seat belts on school buses. We're going to engage in a pilot project in the province of Saskatchewan with a particular—yet to be identified—school district. We will be able to roll that out in terms of putting seat belts on school buses and identifying all the key issues related thereto.

Going back to your original question, I'll turn it over to Michael to respond, in particular, to the 1984 report. Sorry, it was well before my time at Transport, so it would be better to turn to Mike.

[Michael DeJong, Director General, Multi-modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport]

Absolutely. With respect to the 1984 study, that has been joined by significant amounts of research into school bus safety, which has now been published on Transport Canada's website. The 1984 study had conducted and presented the results of a literature survey, as well as discussions with stakeholders. It summarized a crash test program with three school buses and also explained the results of the tests, indicating potential for greater head injury if lap belts were installed.

Subsequently, to answer your question, there were significant technological advances and additional research that led to the technical specifications for the school bus regulations introduced in July 2018. These technical specifications included requirements, for example, for three-point seat belts, as well as to ensure that the seats on schools buses would be well and thoroughly anchored.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I know that the same investigation by the The Fifth Estate highlighted a study that was done in 2010 as well. That's almost 10 years ago. I recognize that more research has been done. Do you end up stacking the findings from these different reports and bringing the relevant pieces forward, or do you start from scratch and say, “No, we're going to start all over again”?

[Michael DeJong]

You're quite right; we would look at the cumulative amount of research over time. We look at the research stemming from the 1984 report, including the internal research report “Optimizing the Protection of School Bus Passengers”. That was from 2010, and it is now available on the department's website.

We look at other research as well, including a summary from 2007 of collision studies that occurred between 1995 and 2004. We would look at the totality of the research to inform the development of refinements and updates to Canada's motor vehicle safety standards as they apply to school buses.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

Just really quickly, I know that the minister, along with his provincial counterparts, announced the creation of a task force to look into seat belts on school buses. You mentioned a pilot project that's going to be done in Saskatchewan. Can you quickly tell us what the mandate of the task force is?

[Michael DeJong]

It was tasked by the Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety in January 2019. The task force was mandated to look at school bus safety measures, or potential school bus safety measures, both inside and outside the school bus. The request or the mandate of the task force had been to identify and assess these potential measures and then bring back recommendations to the council of ministers for consideration.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here.

This is a more complex issue than just a matter of safety belts or seat belts. That's where everybody went initially. One of the reasons I wanted us to have this discussion was that I know, from my days with the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, which invested very heavily in road safety issues, that it's not that simple.

Let's start with this task force and the work in Saskatchewan. How do you see any testing of seat belts on school buses working, given the need, for instance, for some smaller kids to have booster seats to make sure the belt is properly positioned? Or are there new safety belt technologies that would eliminate that need in a school bus?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Before I turn to Mike to talk about the particular technologies, you're absolutely correct that this is complicated and complex, when you consider that some school buses have up to 70 children, all the way from kindergarten up to basically adult-size in grade 12. I grew up in rural Alberta. I know what it was like riding the bus. To ensure that those seat belts are safe, as they are in our cars, they have to be worn properly. We have to be assured that they're being worn properly, as well as recognizing the fact that the seats have to be robust enough to be able to support the seat belt actually being worn.

Mike, I'll turn it over to you to talk about the technology advancements or the technical standards that are required to be able to adjust and to be able to deal with that size difference as we talked about.

[Michael DeJong]

You've certainly identified a number of the operational considerations that have to be looked at as part of the mandate of the school bus task force. As Kevin noted, and as you noted, the size of the children, accounting for the nature of children in school buses, can range from very small children who would be required to have booster seats, which would still be a requirement, to school children who are virtually adult-sized. Being able to account for the varying adjustments and the operational considerations is a key component of this.

The task force is also looking at a number of other complicating factors, such as the requirement to be able to quickly unfasten seat belts in the event of an emergency, and to be able to monitor and ensure that the seat belts are always correctly worn by all occupants all the time. These are important safety considerations to account for, to ensure that the use of the seat belts doesn't compromise the other safety features available on the school bus.

The task force is developing operational guidelines to be able to potentially support the use of seat belts in the event that we go in that direction.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Are there other considerations? For instance, in the design of the seats, the padded back on the seat in front of you in a school bus or in any bus, if it's there, obviously prevents somebody from colliding with something very hard and very difficult if it's a frontal collision, because the physics of a crash is such that everybody moves toward the point of impact inside the vehicle. In the case where seat belts are used, even today in motor vehicles, the other issue that comes up is the whipping effect on the head, either forward or back, or side to side, which leads to significant soft tissue injuries, depending on the person.

Are there some seat designs you're looking at that could deal with those, especially with the side to side, which would be certainly a function if a crash took place?

[Kevin Brosseau]

You've identified, again, the level of complexities, and thus the need to carry out a full, well-thought-through research project and program to identify what could be seen to be unforeseen consequences related to a particular decision—for instance, with respect to seats—and validate that mitigating factors are actually in place that will prevent injuries in one scenario—for instance, a rear-end collision—but that won't exacerbate them in another—for instance, a T-bone or a side impact collision situation. That includes enhanced seat stiffness required for the three-point harness, and a number of other different factors. That is part of the reason why it has taken so much time to get to the point at which we're able to make an informed decision.

Mike, I'll let you build on that point, that particular question.

[Michael DeJong]

Absolutely.

One of the key elements for research is to look at the interplay between the compartmentalized seats and the potential safety benefits associated with seat belts. Compartmentalized seats refers to the high-back padded seats in school buses that are spaced very closely together to absorb the impact of students in the event of a collision and help disperse the energy through the body in order to help mitigate the potential for injury.

In order to anchor seat belts to the seats, there had been concern about whether those seats would need to be stiffened to ensure that the seat belts are properly anchored in the seats. Research continues in this area. A key element is looking at the potential safety benefits associated with seat belts in the context of the existing seat designs.

One of the Canada motor vehicle safety standards does refer to the requirement for compartmentalized seats. Transport Canada does look at seat designs on an ongoing basis to continuously assess whether there are additional technological improvements or additional safety features that could be added.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.

Without going so far as to talk about an admission of failure, the reason we are conducting this study today is that we must at least seriously consider that more needs to be done. Some tragedies have left entire families in mourning and with a more difficult life to live.

I was particularly interested in the testimony of the TSB President last Tuesday. She said that the mandate of organizations equivalent to Canada's TSB in many developed countries includes the review of bus collisions. In Canada, however, TSB data can only be obtained when there is an accident between a bus and another means of transportation, such as trains.

It is already within the TSB's mandate to review bus collisions with trains, planes and boats. Does it seem appropriate to you to ask Transport Canada or the minister to include in the TSB's mandate the review of accidents where two buses have collided?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Thank you for your question.

I assure you that the TSB's recommendations are taken very seriously. They are important and well-documented. However, it is Parliament that should answer this question because it comes under the act.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'll ask the question another way so you can answer it.

Does the few pieces of information that have been successfully obtained from the TSB on accidents that could be investigated provide new insights to increase safety and allow you to implement additional measures?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Absolutely. You always need to have a different perception or opinion on other facts to effectively manage road safety. This information is of great value.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Without taking away from the quality of the work done at Transport Canada, the TSB has the public's trust. We look forward to its reports because we feel we are making progress and it has relevant expertise.

After conducting an accident investigation, the TSB made a number of recommendations to Transport Canada, which remain unanswered to date. For example, the TSB has compared Canadian and American standards that apply to bus construction. Canadian standards don't appear to be at the same level.

Do you think it's appropriate for Canada to adopt standards similar to the American standards?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Thank you for your question.

It is very common for Canada to align its standards with American ones. With respect to crashworthiness, which Ms. Fox told us about, the TSB guided us by making a recommendation in this regard.

We continue to research that point, and in fact, I think we are making positive progress in that regard to ensure that further....

Please excuse me, but I'm better in English.