Evidence of meeting #144 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL
That's wonderful.
Do you think there's enough population and business opportunity? I might be a little biased because I'm from that area, but I'd love to hear the opinions of all of you on this.
Do we have the population base to do it? Do we have the business opportunities there? Can this be an enticement for people to come home?
Managing Director, Maersk Supply Service Canada Ltd.
I can take that question.
There are a lot of people who like to move into the rural areas. There's certainly a place for cities and big industrial centres, but there's also a strong place for our rural economies.
That said, we have to provide a way for these people to earn a living, and then we have to have a network that allows the global trade to continue. Build the network, and I think the economic opportunities will grow with that particular network.
In a sense, I don't think there is right now, but if you build a network, there are several opportunities, just with access to global trade, that will emerge from that.
Liberal
Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL
Wonderful.
Mr. Villeneuve, do you agree with Mr. Dumaresque that it should be an RFP concept or business model?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Great Northern Port Inc.
Yes, I completely agree with what Mr. Dumaresque has said.
There's an opportunity here now. Our port project is a perfect example of that. Canada is a very safe place for investors to invest in. Infrastructure is a very safe place to invest in and I really believe that now there is an opportunity for the private sector to be involved, in co-operation with the provincial governments and the federal government, that actually the private sector could lead.
Liberal
Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL
Mr. Dumaresque, I know you've done research for many years. There have been concepts of putting cars on railbeds to go over, there's a drill and blast, and there's the bore technique. What would your recommendation be from your many years of travelling the world and seeing different tunnelling?
As an Individual
There are a couple of things. First of all, there's the question of population. In the 1980s and the early 1990s, they had a referendum in Prince Edward Island and talked about building the Confederation Bridge. P.E.I. has fewer than 150,000 people, but in 1993, the private sector came forward with $1.3 billion of all-private money and made a simple agreement with the Government of Canada that they would construct, operate and maintain the Confederation Bridge for some 33 years if we gave them just the subsidy that we were spending anyway on the ferry and allow us to keep the $34 or $40 for the car.... In 13 or 14 years, that bridge will revert back to the Government of Canada and the people of Canada for $1, and that has saved us millions of dollars. I see the same concept going forward here.
In terms of getting it built, it is, as my friend in Norway told me, “Danny, this is not rocket science; it's just rock, and as long as you know what kind of rock you're going to intersect every five metres of the way, it doesn't matter if you're 1,000 feet below sea level or 10,000 feet, it's not going to fall down.”
I went for my first time in the Solbakk tunnel, which is 1,000 feet below, six years ago, and I really thought that this was where it was going to end for me, when I went down and there was water dripping everywhere, but this is tunnel number 33, and it's now ready to open for traffic.
There's nothing to fear. You just have to know what you're doing and do your proper due diligence, and it will be safe, and it will be real.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all of our guests for being here this morning.
From what I just heard, I get the impression that there are two visions here. It is important to understand that there has been inadequate investment in infrastructure for years. When I see on one hand that there are problems like the one with Autoroute 185, but on the other hand, a tunnel, a fixed link is being built, I wonder what the priority should be in terms of investment knowing that budgets are finite even though we would always like to have more.
The question is for everyone. Each witness could provide a brief answer.
What approach should we be taking? Should we build infrastructure that will generate economic activity or should we take existing economic activity and upgrade the infrastructure to improve current economic development?
The tunnel and Autoroute 185 represent both models. Could you briefly comment on that?
Mr. Dumaresque could go first followed by Ms. O'Pray.
As an Individual
Thank you very much.
I am talking about two things. One is to spend existing money more wisely. Over the next 40 years, we're going to spend some $2.4 billion on ferries, on icebreakers and on the Bella Desgagnés coming from Rimouski down to la Basse-Côte-Nord. That's $2.4 billion, yet 14.3 kilometres of tunnelling was done in Norway, actually two tubes for 28.6 kilometres, for $418 million, and that's Canadian dollars. The numbers are real. The business case is there to take existing funds and use them more wisely.
Of course, if you could go and apply some block funding from an infrastructure bank and be able to use it as well to upgrade the 138 along the Basse-Côte-Nord, because that area is also an area of chronic unemployment, it would be good to be able to provide the route to bring the tourists there.
That's one of the things that cannot be dismissed. In 1997 when the bridge was opened to P.E.I., there were 700 tourists—
NDP
As an Individual
Okay. There are hundreds of thousands of people who will come to create the jobs in areas like the lower north shore of Quebec.
NDP
President and Chief Executive Officer, New Brunswick Business Council
When I think about the options you put forward and look at the 41-kilometre stretch that will not be completed until 2025, it leads me to the option of adapting existing infrastructure so that current economies can be achieved.
In Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces, trucking associations, as well as the business council, have corresponded with federal-provincial ministers. Even back in 2017, they said they would be hard-pressed to find a road infrastructure project in eastern Canada that carries as much economic benefit for the region as this. It's really unthinkable that in this day and age, there is a stretch of highway between Halifax and Toronto that limits our ability to move goods between provinces in Canada.
To your pointed question about priorities, I agree. I know that this has been a priority and the funding is in place, but these are the kinds of projects.... A billion dollars' worth of annual impact for Atlantic Canada is significant, given that the funding is already there.
There is no new money required for this. It requires a will to expedite this project so that we can see the economic benefit for Canada, but in particular for Atlantic Canada and Quebec.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
I have a question for Mr. Morency.
It was music to my ears to hear you talk about targeting zero carbon emissions in your opening remarks.
Should the environment and reducing greenhouse gases be the top criterion in funding any infrastructure project from now on?
Managing Director, Maersk Supply Service Canada Ltd.
Of course the short answer is yes.
However, we have to be pragmatic. We have to make sure we have the technology and then consider where we are in terms of our progress toward zero carbon emissions. We can't prevent business opportunities from moving forward.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
When you talked about the electrification of transportation, you mentioned trains.
Do you also think we could look at the electrification of road transportation, trucks and hydrogen buses for example, which hasn't really been developped in Canada? We have some of the most extraordinary leaders in this area, but are one of the countries that develops this the least.
Is this something that you have looked at in detail?
Managing Director, Maersk Supply Service Canada Ltd.
This is something that we have looked at in detail.
Do you mean in Denmark?
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
No, I'm talking about Canada and hyrdogen and fuel cell technologies. Canada develops quite a few zero emissions transport trucks.
Managing Director, Maersk Supply Service Canada Ltd.
We can't just focus on technology for the sake of technology. We just have to focus on zero emissions. The technology doesn't matter as much. We have to develop an infrastructure network to ensure that companies have access to this energy. That is the most important thing.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome to our guests.
I have some questions, primarily about the presentation by Mr. Dumaresque and Mr. Villeneuve.
Danny, I know you've had tunnel vision for 30 years now.
