Transport Committee on May 28th, 2019

[Claudia Ferland]

I'll just check my figures, so that I can give you the right ones.

In the 2016 budget, we received $4.28 billion; in 2017, $4 billion over 10 years; in 2018, $172.6 million; and in 2019, $1 billion. This amounts to about $8 billion, which will be administered by the department.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

[Claudia Ferland]

Of the $4.28 billion that we received in 2016, $3 billion has been spent. Our projects are up to date. We probably have—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That's fine. I'm interrupting you because I really don't have much time. I can already see the progress, and it makes things clear to me.

Can you give us an idea of the sub-envelopes included in the billions of dollars? How much money goes to housing, drinking water and broader infrastructure projects that affect an entire community, for example?

[Claudia Ferland]

Yes, absolutely.

For example, from the infrastructure budget, we received $1.83 billion over five years for water; $416 million over two years for residences; $76.9 million over two years for culture; and $319.9 million over five years for health.

In the 2017 budget, of the $4 billion, we received $41.3 million over three years for water—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you. I suppose that you can send us these figures so that we can check them and I can move on.

I now want to focus on housing. I believe that it's one of the basic needs, along with drinking water. I understand that you're spending the money that you receive through the budget. However, do you know the total scope of the housing needs in indigenous communities in Canada?

[Claudia Ferland]

I'd like to invite my colleague Chad Westmacott to answer the question.

[Chad Westmacott]

Thank you.

We do have a sense of the total scope of needs that are out there. For water, for example, there was a study done that pointed out a total need of about $3.6 billion. This was before the funding that came out in budgets 2016, 2017 and 2018, and that is proposed under budget 2019. We have a sense that there is still over a billion dollars of need on the water side.

On the housing side, there was a study done by Clatworthy in 2016 that pointed out an estimated need of 85,000 housing units. That includes 41,000 new builds and 44,000 units needing major repairs.

This gap could reach to $17 billion in 2027-28 under status quo programming.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

I imagine that this study is also available on the department's website, or that you could send it to our clerk.

I'd like you to confirm the following. When it comes to housing construction, I imagine that the process involves calls for tenders and that business is conducted with a contractor who builds houses in each community.

Are houses built on site in accordance with the geographic and climatic realities of each location, or are model houses purchased and distributed throughout the communities, which could result in houses that aren't entirely adapted to the environment where they end up?

[Claudia Ferland]

I'd like to invite my colleague Chad Westmacott to answer the question.

[Chad Westmacott]

In terms of the housing side, it really depends on the first nation that is making the housing decision. We provide funding on an annual basis and through targeted funding to first nations for their housing needs. It is the first nations who make the decisions themselves in terms of the housing needs that are there. There is a variety of different housing used, the whole spectrum of housing from apartments to single family units. It is up to the first nation as to exactly how they want to do it.

We see examples of modular houses being sent to first nation communities, and we see others in which the construction is actually done within the first nation community, so it varies across the country.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Is it true that, as part of the indigenous homes innovation initiative, indigenous communities compete with each other through projects that they must submit, rather than simply receive a share of the funding that would help them meet the needs that they've identified?

[Chad Westmacott]

The $30 million for the indigenous homes innovation initiative is separate from the funding that my colleague was talking about, the $416.6 million, or the $600 million in budget 2017 and confirmed in 2018.

The innovation initiative is a competitive process, but the idea is to create innovation, bring forward new ideas, develop new ideas, and provide funding to first nations and indigenous people who have these interesting ideas that may take us to a different place in terms of a longer-term strategy for housing.

As I said, this is above and beyond the traditional funding that we've been providing through budget 2016 and onwards to first nations for their housing needs.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I understand—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, Mr. Aubin, but your time is up.

We go now to Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Personally, I really like the gas tax fund. I think it's very effective. In terms of government timelines, it's pretty immediate.

A couple of my colleagues were talking about the calculation based on population. Do you think that's equitable? The share they get is based on their population. I can appreciate your saying that it's combined with other funding, but I would imagine their need is also greater. My question is whether the share they get is equitable relative to their needs.

[Claudia Ferland]

Thank you for the question.

The gas tax fund is a stable source of funding that we know has been coming in since 2005. It's indexed. It allows us to pool it and to go to projects that are in the priority hopper. We know it's there. It's statutory.

The fact that, as I said, it was indexed allows us to do those projections in terms of how we bring it with the other funds so that we can make an impact in eight categories of infrastructure.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Again, I can certainly appreciate we only have so much funding for all of the needs for the entire country.

That was the only question I had, so I'm going to give the rest of my time to my colleague Karen.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you for your testimony this morning and your responses to the questions.

I represent a riding in New Brunswick, New Brunswick Southwest. We have the Kingsclear First Nation. They're very proud people. They are often looking for ways to be innovative in their community.

I have a series of questions. Ms. Ferland, when you're hearing about the projects and those that are priorities, are those that don't make the initial cut still envisioned? Is there long-term coordination, possibly, to meeting those needs? In looking at the priorities that are set within first nations communities, is there a level of expertise that could be built upon within the communities, within the population, to help meet some of the needs with longer term funding?

Thank you.

[Claudia Ferland]

Thank you for your questions.

With regard to the prioritization framework, we work, really, to keep the projects on the list. We really want to work with first nations. It is their priorities, their ranking as well. It comes aggregated so that we are able to provide some of the funding.

With regard to the riding that you represent, more recently there's going to be a significant project with Kingsclear First Nation as well. In that project specifically, we've been talking, through the region headquarters, with the first nation. We want to make projects that are relevant.

To your second point on capacity development, actually, of all the roughly 4,000 projects that have been delivered over the past few years, almost 1,000 are in capacity or training development. The idea right now is that we want to not only build the infrastructure but build it with first nations, develop capacity in the first nation so that they're able to maintain their infrastructure, and also maybe get jobs out of it.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It does. If you think about needs like child care, you realize certainly that accessible, available quality child care requires training. Ultimately, within the community, if the level of expertise is there, that's probably a really good fit.

I want to say I'm very impressed that you would know specifically about Kingsclear and the project that's coming up. It's a really important one.

In terms of broadband, where are we on infrastructure and broadband across first nations in Canada?

[Claudia Ferland]

Thank you for your question.

With regard to the broadband, we loop it into our other essential community infrastructure, realizing that broadband is part of infrastructure now and moving forward. As of March 31, 2019, close to $760 million of targeted funds had been invested to support almost 1,300 infrastructure projects related to other communities.

We've been working with the CRTC to ensure that we build towards the 50 megabytes download and 10 upload to fix the broadband Internet services. We're working collaboratively with ISED and the CRTC to move forward, to move on the envelope. We're connected into the national connectivity strategy, which is being brought forward as part of budget 2019, to make sure that communities across the country have access to rural broadband, which I understand has been announced as $1.7 billion over 30 years for access across the country.

We have done some work with some first nation communities to access connectivity as well, such as in Manitoba.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 20 seconds.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, thank you.