Transport Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'll give the other witnesses an opportunity to perhaps elaborate on whether the changes made have allowed them to take on projects that may not have been possible before the changes were made.

[Raymond Orb]

I'd like to answer that.

In Saskatchewan we have the municipal roads for the economy program, and our province allocates funding to the rural municipalities that can apply. The ones that meet the criteria for the program can actually receive funding. We can send to the committee the list of the projects that have gone ahead. I think those projects could have gone ahead before the rules were changed on navigable waters, but as I stated, they would have been delayed, and they would have been very costly. I think a lot of those projects would not have been able to go ahead if the regulations had not been changed.

Right now, the process is working the way we would like it to work. As I mentioned, we still have the checks and balances along the way with Environment, but we can certainly forward that list.

I'd just like to make a comment. Part of the problem is municipalities across the country only receive about eight cents out of every tax dollar. Those are the funds that we operate with. That's not unique to Saskatchewan. I think it's very common across the country. We need funding from Building Canada. Saskatchewan municipalities, the smaller ones, like the rural municipalities, haven't received much funding, in most cases none from Building Canada. We're using our own provincial money. So we're making a pitch, of course, to have the criteria changed so that rural municipalities and smaller communities can qualify for the funding.

We can certainly send you the list of the projects that we're doing now.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure, and as a rural MP, that's something I'm interested in as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Your time is up, Mr. Fraser. Thank you very much.

Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Madam Chair, I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, Mr. Iacono.

My colleagues have touched upon this but I'd like some further clarification from each of you, please.

Transport Canada's navigation program no longer accepts complaints about works that impede navigation on unlisted waterways. Individuals who believe that a work on an unlisted waterway has an impact on the public right to navigation need to seek a court order to resolve the issue. Have any of the municipalities you represent been taken to court following the receipt of a complaint about a non-compliant municipal work on an unlisted waterway?

[Al Kemmere]

From an Alberta point of view, I don't know of any. I would hope that communication would take place at the council level, long before they would see if they would go to court.

[Raymond Orb]

As far as I know, there haven't been any municipalities that have been taken to court.

I would just like to mention one thing. There is the Trans Canada Trail across the country which is due to be completed before 2017. We have lots of blue ways, designated routes for people to travel on our waterways, by canoe especially. In Saskatchewan, our trail has just been completed, and we have signs up that people can use, when they put their canoes in, to travel down the waterway.

We think it's making a big difference that people who want to use it for recreation or for short travel distances can use that route.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

You don't know of any complaints being taken to court.

[Raymond Orb]

No. None.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you. That's my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Iacono, go ahead.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning.

I have a question for Scott Pearce.

How can the legislation be amended to better protect navigable waters?

[Scott Pearce]

Thank you so much for your question, sir.

First of all, there is no conflict in terms of the right of navigation to bring our products to market or to perform infrastructure work needed on the waterways.

Here’s the problem. Based on the way the legislation is worded, there is no limit on the size of vessels on our waterways, which means that the waterways are dying.

There are several ways to look at the problem. A number of experts have conducted studies on the issue. Clearly, we must start with the damage caused by a boat that is too large for a waterway and that may create waves five or six feet high, destroying the shoreline.

There is no limit. Take the example of a person who has a cottage or a house in Quebec City by a lake that is three kilometres long and 7.5 metres deep. Legally, the person has the right to bring a 60-metre-long boat on the lake from Lake Ontario. The municipality cannot do anything to stop them.

This means that there are no constraints on the navigation on our waterways. There are no constraints on the size and weight of the boats or the waves they make. Unfortunately, as they say, it’s the wild west on our lakes and rivers. The sky’s the limit. Without a limit, of course people will take advantage and think bigger and bigger.

Does that answer your question, sir?

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes.

Madam Chair, do I still have time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You still have two and half minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'll take this opportunity to share my time with my colleague, David Graham.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Graham, go ahead.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Pearce, I am your neighbour from the Laurentians. I've read about you in Main Street. It's a pleasure to sort of meet you through the system.

[Scott Pearce]

I know a lot about you as well, sir.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's always concerning.

As you know, our region has huge problems with lakes. It's one of the biggest issues in my riding, after Internet access.

I heard you talking to Angelo. I missed the beginning of your presentation. I'm sorry about that.

Could I ask you what your ideas are for solutions on dealing with these lake problems? I know that in Sainte-Agathe, for example, we've had studies that demonstrate lake depth and distance from shoreline where large boats are permissible, and I know that this is not a unanimous position. I wonder what your thoughts are.

[Scott Pearce]

The way we look at it at the FQM level is that the federal government has to find some sort of common ground. As you know, boats are getting bigger and bigger, and the lakes are not getting bigger. It could be something based on—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

I think this is not relevant to the study we are now studying here. These are environmental issues. I'm speaking in English; I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You're doing a very good job, Mr. Berthold. It's much better than my French.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I don’t think the question is really relevant to the study that we are doing right now.

[Scott Pearce]

Sir, I would like to answer that.