Transport Committee on March 7th, 2016

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

So an amount of money that could be called a penalty, or what have you, may be paid to the Signature on the St. Lawrence Group because that component will not be implemented.

[Helena Borges]

Yes, that's correct.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's what's being negotiated as we speak.

[Helena Borges]

Yes, that's correct.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Do you have an idea of the amount that could entail?

[Helena Borges]

Not yet. I should mention that, during project planning, some elements may have already been included and amounts may have already been committed. We are talking dollars, as we speak. That is the focus of the negotiations.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Now I have an overview. Thank you.

Minister, earlier, my colleague Mr. Fraser brought up small communities and their concern that the three priorities identified under the plan appear to focus on cities.

I've spoken with a few of my old mayor colleagues in Quebec, and they are somewhat concerned that they'll be forgotten under this extensive infrastructure plan. I would just like to point out that these people are very anxious for support, especially since, as mentioned earlier, small communities in Quebec have yet again received nothing. So they are extremely worried. You ought to give them some reassurance regarding the federal government's involvement in these projects under your new plan.

I have here studies from the Union des municipalités du Québec showing that municipalities' contribution to infrastructure projects corresponds to about 70% of the cost, even though municipalities are the only ones whose investment does not bring in any tax revenue. They don't collect taxes from the construction workers involved in the projects. They are really contributing 100%.

You were a city councillor, so you know that municipalities don't see a return on their investment. I'd say they're expecting the federal government to give them a break in its next plan.

Funding has to be planned quickly if municipalities are to be ready. Can you go so far as to tell us what level of involvement you're expecting from small towns under your new plan?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

The changes we will make in consultation with the FCM and other partners to the matching funding requirement from one-third to whatever the new level will be will benefit all communities, big communities, small communities, and mid-size communities. Every community will benefit from that.

There are needs in small communities that currently are not being met for water, waste water, flood mitigation, and for other things they need to do. I want to make clear that under the three new streams of funding—social, green infrastructure, and transit infrastructure—they'll be able to access funding from green infrastructure; they'll be able to access funding from social infrastructure, and they'll be able to continue to access funding from the building Canada fund. We're also making some changes there to allow them more flexibility to access more funding from the building Canada fund.

What I can assure you of moving forward, for the design of the new money, we will provide support to all communities, regardless of their size. We will treat all communities fairly, regardless of their size. We will provide them with funding based on their local needs, on the priorities they have identified.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Earlier, you mentioned efforts to cut needless steps out of the process, as part of the new plan currently being developed. Sometimes, certain steps involving the provinces may seem unnecessary, but they are nevertheless there. Getting infrastructure funding to small communities more quickly is quite the challenge, Minister. I think all of us who represent rural communities are going to do everything we can to help you get that money flowing directly.

Small communities have done a lot, they've invested a lot, and their capacity to pay is diminishing right now. Under the last fund, their debt level rose significantly, particularly in Quebec. Municipalities have made tremendous contributions to infrastructure funding. Your new plan—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Berthold, perhaps you could end your question, please.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Yes.

Will your new plan still impose a financial obligation on communities?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Just a short answer, Minister.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Thank you for that question.

Through you, Madam Chair, part of my mandate letter is about the creation of the infrastructure bank. This is what I envision the role of the bank will be. How do we support municipal infrastructure where municipalities don't have the capacity to borrow, or if they borrow, they borrow at a higher rate? What role can the federal government play to give them low-cost loans or loan guarantees over a number of years, so they can do their matching in cases where they don't have the capacity to match?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

We're currently living in an era of drones. There's an app for everything. I notice that in your mandate letter, you were tasked to assist the Minister of Public Safety. I was wondering what the government currently has in place and will have in place to protect critical infrastructure from cyber-attacks.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Thank you for that question, because that is part of the mandate. My staff had some initial discussions with Minister Goodale's staff on this, because we want to make sure that, as this is being done, we put in place mechanisms to protect our infrastructure from cyber-attacks.

Maybe the deputy minister will want to talk a little bit more about where we are on this.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

Minister Goodale would be better placed to tell you what other measures are in place. Our role is to support him. I know that Minister Goodale is thinking about having consultations on cyber-attacks in the next month.

More important for us is the critical infrastructure. Especially for the projects we fund, we want to know what the critical infrastructure is, how we can identify it, and how we can make sure that the proponents, the people who own that infrastructure, know about the risk. Working with Public Safety would be essential to do that.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I don't have a follow-up question.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Members, when you have your five or six minutes, you can share that time with one of your other colleagues, if you so choose.

Mr. Fraser, did you want to share some of Mr. Sikand's time?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure. I'm happy to jump in, and I don't think I need the full six minutes.

Following up on the line of questioning on the Canadian infrastructure bank, I think this is a unique idea that could benefit small communities.

Can you provide any guidelines that will help small communities with regard to what kinds of projects they might get low-cost financing for through the infrastructure bank?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

At this time I cannot say which projects will qualify or not. We are at a very preliminary stage in working with Minister Morneau's office on this. This responsibility is shared between my department and Minister Morneau's finance department.

The idea or the principle behind it is, first of all, to recognize the capacity issues of municipalities, and then to create a resource they can tap into to access those loans. If we identify any other issues in consultation with them, we will have other consultations for the design of the infrastructure bank. We will engage the private sector. We will engage municipalities. We will definitely engage and seek input from you, if you have any ideas on that.

I can't tell you which projects, but the principle is that we have recognized the capacity issue and we want to tackle the capacity issue through the creation of the infrastructure bank.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure. You mentioned consultations with the private sector. Is it possible that the infrastructure bank would potentially provide financing to private enterprise, or is it restricted to municipalities?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

I can't comment on that at this time, because we don't know what the scope of the infrastructure bank is going to be.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's fine. I wanted to make sure that my understanding met yours and potentially that in the mandate letter.

I'd like to shift gears briefly, if I have another moment or two.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have two minutes.