Transport Committee on March 21st, 2016

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm a bit puzzled about the responses on the remote control devices. We've had some really serious accidents in the Edmonton area. One of the incidents using the remote control spilled almost 100,000 litres of styrene, and it involved a staff member who had only been employed for a month. That doesn't sound to me like somebody who is well trained. We've certainly been hearing concerns from the locomotive engineers about this practice. We have heard that it's being moved outside the yards and that CP in particular is pursuing the use of these devices to cut down on the costs of using locomotive engineers.

I've reviewed these new railway safety management system regulations. They require, when there is such an anticipated change in the use of technology, that they do an environmental management plan. Have the rail companies submitted environmental management plans on their proposal to expand the use of remote control devices, and if so, could we see them?

[Laureen Kinney]

I would make just a general comment first and then a more specific one.

In general, the requirements for the use of the remote operation equipment has not changed. Should any occurrences arise...and certainly in any of those that did come up, immediate steps were taken to investigate, to find out what was going on, and to take necessary action. Every year our inspectors take a variety of actions in terms of notices and orders. Where there's a threat, they will take that action.

In terms of changes to the operation, I do not believe any of the railways have come forward with any changes to these proposals to change their use of the equipment, but perhaps Madam Diogo could clarify.

[Brigitte Diogo]

I'm not aware of any company coming forward with changes.

I just want to clarify something with regard to the Canadian rail operating rules. Earlier we were saying that the remote control locomotive system is used mainly in yards. However, CROR does allow the equipment to be used on main lines under certain conditions. So it's not something that isn't covered by regulations.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I guess one can be concerned that if CP is informing its union but it's not informing the department that it's planning to expand this technology on main tracks in Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Welland, Lethbridge, Regina, and Bredenbury in central Saskatchewan, this is cause for concern. I'm becoming deeply concerned that the department sees its role as simply responding after the fact. In meeting with municipalities, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities is deeply concerned about the lack of consultation and the sort of freewheeling of the industry. The fire chiefs are deeply concerned about the lack of attention to intervening to prevent incidents rather than trying to respond after the fact.

To go back to my earlier question, why is it that in this industrial sector we're retaining this attitude that this is an industry that can do as it sees fit? It develops its own environmental management system and its own safety management systems, with maybe follow-up with the department. That's not the case with other industrial sectors, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Duncan, I'm sorry—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

The time is up already...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I was trying to be as generous with you as I could, but you've gone way over. If there's an opportunity to answer, well, we have a couple more questions.

Mr. Iacono, you have six minutes. You can use it or share it with your colleagues.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'll share it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

All right.

Please go ahead.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Did you say that the Canadian Transport Emergency Centre is coming to the end of their mandate, and that their last meeting is coming up? If yes, what is Transport Canada's plan to work with local first responders to ensure safety at future accidents?

[Laureen Kinney]

I may have slightly confused issues in my remarks, so let me clarify.

CANUTEC, which provides response immediately to first responders on information about chemicals and potential spills, is continuing. It is fully supported and will continue in the future. There is no change proposed there. The emergency task force, which was put together for a one-year mandate and then was extended to more than a year and a half plus, is coming to the conclusion of its work. It has made its recommendations and is finalizing its reports.

I should note, which I hadn't previously, that their work will be continuing through a new subcommittee under the minister's policy advisory committee for the transportation of dangerous goods. So there will be a committee continuing the very good work that has been done by the emergency task force.

Thank you.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Do I still have some time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You still have some time.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

When you develop your safety protocols for rail or dangerous goods, how do local responders learn those protocols? You mentioned that you have a national committee to help develop these protocols. How do we ensure that small towns in rural Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia learn the protocols and have the resources to deal with an accident?

[Laureen Kinney]

This is an excellent question. The task force has been working for a year and a half. They've developed a series of very good recommendations with incident command, protocols, and various advice on training and guidance materials, etc. However, the challenge now will be to make sure that those are distributed and available, and an awareness is out there of those items in the communities and with the first responders.

One of the key elements in developing the task force was to bring in those members of the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs and various other associations that have those connections, as well as industry members who carry out training for various first responders. There will need to be a unified effort to distribute that information.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Just as an extension to that, once again I look forward to seeing that summary because fire chiefs and those folks who are in the business are enablers and they actually are resources, but it's the actual preparedness managers who are in fact putting those in place, and of course establishing those protocols. I look forward to seeing the summary on how far you've taken that.

With respect to a comment you made earlier, with respect to fatigue and of course the working above the 14-hour threshold, you mentioned that we haven't got that far yet because there was no agreement reached with those you were having discussions with. I believe that's what I heard earlier. With that said, I was under the impression that the minister—I believe it was the former minister of transportation—actually mandated to Transport Canada that in fact the threshold be at 14 hours max. Can I get some clarification on that?

[Laureen Kinney]

If I can just first of all clarify that there are two elements in existence now that apply to railways and to fatigue. One is the requirement for fatigue management plans, which was a new requirement added to the safety management system regulations that were put in place on April 1 of last year, so that is a significant new step. On top of that, there are work-rest rules that lay out specific elements of the requirements.

I should also mention there are contractual arrangements that are negotiated as well on the issue of how work-rest should be managed beyond the regulatory requirements. I would say that this work is there. It is in place. It is operating. It's about whether or not those should be changed or whether there are new areas that need to be looked at that are still issues of development.

In terms of that comment that you made, in terms of the 14 hours, I don't recall that. I would have to go back and check.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Time is up.

I want to thank our witnesses very much for your patience today as well. The committee has a lot of interest in many of these issues.

You were asked to supply a variety of reports. I don't know if it was the intent of the committee members to have you provide 3,000 pages in both official languages, but I think you got the points that were being asked. If you could do the best you can to supply that information, again in both official languages, there may be some follow-up to that, but if you could supply that to the clerk so that all members of the committee would have that information we would appreciate it very much.

Thank you all very much. We look forward to having you back possibly another afternoon, a pleasant afternoon with your committee.

Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I have a comment on that. Would the clerk be providing this to us electronically? For those of us who may require whatever is going to be sent, if we wanted to access it electronically, would that be possible? I know we're doing a lot more on our iPads.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We're trying to get everything electronically so we can save some additional trees, if that's possible.

[Laureen Kinney]

Let us look at that and we'll certainly do our very best to give everything electronically. It certainly makes good sense.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Sure, all right. Thanks.