Evidence of meeting #73 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recall.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Within the process we're involved in now, do you have any other ideas we can actually pursue?
4:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Automobile Protection Association
Oh, for sure. There should be a positive duty of some level, but I don't think we can do it here. Once the tool is available for real-time lookup capability, that process is part of the vehicle transaction when a used vehicle is sold.
4:15 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
I want to add that our understanding is that the department has a VIN lookup tool, except that if you go to that tool it clicks you onto the link of the automaker, and the last time we checked it had only 14 of 28 automakers on it. Our understanding is they're working to improve that tool. That's something we support.
They can do that under current regulations, so it's not something we need to see in this bill. They should absolutely, in our view, be pursuing that as a priority, because it would also respond a little bit to Mr. Lobb's concern. If we had a proper VIN lookup tool in this country, it could be part of a public education campaign that when you're buying a vehicle you should go to this website and type in the VIN to see if it pops up or not. That is a half-finished project right now, but that needs to happen. I think it would help a lot of people.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
It's an opportunity for a free commercial, Mr. Jack. If I bring my vehicle into a BCAA facility, looking for a complete review of it before I buy it, will they do the check to see if there are any outstanding recalls?
September 28th, 2017 / 4:15 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
That's a good question. I'll have to get back to you on whether BCAA offers that particular service, as we are a federation of eight independent clubs, each with its own service offerings. There's the ad portion. I honestly don't know. I will find out for you.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Isn't there the germ of an issue here? Eight separate organizations, x number of different provinces each with their own regimes and everything else, this funny old Canada of ours presents a patchwork quilt of regulations and everything else. It makes it very, very difficult for consumers across the country to have confidence that everything is happening the way it should.
With that comment I've probably used up the rest of Mr. Badawey's time, right?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Talk to me about hidden warranties. I have run into them with vehicles that I've owned in the past. I would go in with a problem and the service person would sidle up to me and say, “Hey, there's actually a warranty on this thing that they didn't want me to tell you about.” Does that sort of thing still happen?
4:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Automobile Protection Association
Yes. We've made a career out of exposing them.
To be accurate, in theory a warranty problem is less than a safety issue. They wait until you go in to find out about it. With a safety issue they have a duty to go out and get you, not wait until you have the problem. Occasionally there is overlap, because companies will try to make a problem disappear by fixing in onesies and twosies instead of actually doing a formal program. I think the company behaviour around that is much better now than it was, say, 10 years ago.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My question is for Mr. Jack. I want to focus on autonomous driverless vehicles. It's clear this technology is already here. It's also clear there's no regulatory framework to deal with it. What is your organization's view on driverless vehicles? Do we need a regulatory framework? Or has the approach that has been taken for the last number of years, which is to do nothing and just let the industry lead the charge, the right way to go?
4:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
It depends on what kind of framework we're looking at. As you would know, in Bill S-2 there's some language that would enable the minister to allow AVs to be tested on Canadian roads. We're very supportive of that.
We need some framework, because things should be happening right now that would be illegal technically, such as testing of AVs. If we want to have any kind of R and D in this country, we obviously need to be able to test those vehicles at some point. I can't imagine it was the intention of those who framed the bill originally that we wouldn't be allowed to do that kind of work. We're very supportive of that part of the framework.
Beyond that, absolutely, there needs to be more of a framework. We testified before the Senate committee, which looked into this issue extensively. We do polling on this issue. We know roughly where Canadians sit: they think AVs are coming, but they're kind of scared of them right now, so there needs to be more talk, public education, and policy work done. We understand there is at this point a DG-level committee in government across a bunch of departments looking at some of the issues, which will inevitably touch on all kinds of departments.
Insurance regulation is very interesting, and the Department of Transport obviously is going to be implicated in this, as well as ISED. It is truly an interdepartmental issue.
Data privacy is an issue we care a lot about at CAA. The Office of the Privacy Commissioner has been looking at this as well. Who controls the data that your vehicle will be collecting about you, or is already potentially collecting about you, as we move into this era of the smart phone on wheels? That's even before AVs. That's in the next 10 to 20 years, before everybody's in an AV; we are going to have vehicles collecting a heck of a lot of information about us.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
When should this regulatory framework be released by?
4:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
I don't have a date in mind.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Some people in the industry have said we're way behind on this, and that guidelines were released by the American administration a year ago. There are numerous states now that have permitting processes in place for driverless vehicles. We don't have any federal regulatory framework or guidelines in place. By the time this legislation passes, it could be another 10 years before we have it. The Auditor General—
4:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
Well, no, we wouldn't find that acceptable.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
What are we looking at? Is there a sense of urgency about this? Do we need to have something in place in the next six months, the next 12 months, or the next 24 months?
4:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Communications and Government Relations, Canadian Automobile Association
I wouldn't want to put an exact timeline on it. I understand the Senate committee is due to report, with any luck, by Christmas. We hope the government will take that report very seriously, as I'm sure they will, and act on some of the recommendations. That would put you in a time frame before the next election, one would hope, in 2019.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Mr. Iny, do you have any questions through the chair?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Automobile Protection Association
First, two caveats.
One, this involves the provinces too, because the vehicle's driving on roads inside their province, so the answer won't be entirely federal.
Two, we shouldn't be shy about borrowing what's been done elsewhere, rather than reinventing the wheel, because we're a middle-sized player. If we can find a large set of rules that work, either in the U.S. or in Europe, we could consider looking elsewhere.
Three, when things are changing so quickly, the answer may not be in legislation right now, but we need to be ready, to have a framework ready, so we can then put the rules in afterwards.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I'm not suggesting that legislation is the solution. This legislation, I believe in clause 11, allows the minister to override current regulations or to create new ones for innovation. What I'm sensing from industry is we're behind Europe and the United States in creating guidelines that would guide provinces in establishing these regulatory frameworks.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Automobile Protection Association
The first thing would be to try to borrow what we can that's being done elsewhere, particularly if we want to catch up.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
My first question will be for CAA. You noted in your testimony that there are currently 16 active Transport Canada investigations under way, and that there are 13 from 2017. I'm wondering if you believe this bill strikes the right balance between consumer protection and good business practices. Also, do you believe the legislation in the United States provides more protections for consumers, and that the recalls are placed at a priority over Canadians?
