Evidence of meeting #82 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was moratorium.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heather McCready  Director General, Environmental Enforcement, Department of the Environment
Marc Bernier  Director, Environmental Science and Technology Laboratories, Department of the Environment
Gregory Lick  Director General, Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Kim Kasperski  Director, Environmental Impacts, CanmetENERGY, Department of Natural Resources
Carl Brown  Manager, Emergencies Science and Technology Section, Department of the Environment
Christine Siminowski  Director, Canadian Oil, Refining and Energy Security Division, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Ken Veldman  Director, Public Affairs, Prince Rupert Port Authority
Peter Xotta  Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority
Marina Spahlinger  Manager, Regulatory and Stakeholder Relations, Canada, Royal Vopak
Joel Smith  Operations Manager, Province of Quebec, Vopak Terminals of Canada, Royal Vopak

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Got it.

For the Port of Vancouver, what are your traffic forecasts looking like over the next, say, 15 to 20 years in terms of growth in the number of ship movements?

November 21st, 2017 / 4:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

The overall number of ship movements has actually been static for the last 20 years. There have been somewhere between 3,000 and 3,200 vessel movements per year since 1995, when I joined the port authority. The projected increase, should the Kinder Morgan volume materialize as projected, would grow the port volume by approximately 10%, or about 300 additional movements per year at full volume.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Then we are dealing with larger ships, are we?

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Your time is up.

Mr. Donnelly is next.

5 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for providing your testimony today to the committee.

There was a question about vessel incidents in the northwest. I would reference the sinking of the Queen of the North. As well, I referenced earlier the Nathan E. Stewart.

Maybe I could start with the Prince Rupert Port Authority. You gave us some background information. Could you talk about current tanker traffic in the port? You also mentioned the impacts of this proposed moratorium. Talk about the current tanker traffic in the port, the vessel traffic in the port.

5 p.m.

Director, Public Affairs, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Ken Veldman

Currently, the only tanker traffic that would occur in the port would be related to slack wax, which is a relatively minor product for us. We tend to have about four vessel visits a year, and that usually brings a total of about 10,000 metric tonnes.

5 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Are those the largest vessels entering the port? What is the largest?

5 p.m.

Director, Public Affairs, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Ken Veldman

Oh, not by far. The largest vessels would be container vessels. We've experienced very large container vessels that would measure up to 14,000 containers on each quay use.

5 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Once the moratorium is in place, how do you see the change affecting the port activity?

5 p.m.

Director, Public Affairs, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Ken Veldman

From a current perspective, the example I provided was the slack wax traffic that currently occurs. Our larger concern is really about future demand. Currently we're working with a number of partners, including the B.C. government and Transport Canada. Our outlook says there will likely be 10 million to 12 million metric tonnes of potential fuel, marine fuels that could be exported to Asian markets over the next 10 years. That does not include bitumen, but other fuels that are a significant opportunity for the Canadian economy.

5 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

Turning to the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, I'm focused on spill response. You mentioned that the tanker ban wouldn't directly impact you but could indirectly impact Vancouver Fraser.

I have some notes about Western Canada Marine Response Corporation. They're constructing a new on-water spill response base in the Vancouver harbour. This proposed base is supposed to be part of a larger expansion plan to meet enhanced response requirements associated with the Trans Mountain expansion project. They claim this larger expansion will double the WCMRC's capability or capacity and cut mandated response times in half on the south coast waters. Have you heard about this plan? Are you satisfied with this local plan, and the local spill response plan and resources, to deal with the proposed Kinder Morgan sevenfold tanker increase?

5 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

Thank you for the question, Mr. Donnelly.

The WCMRC facility that I'm most familiar with is adjacent to New Brighton Park in the vicinity of the Second Narrows Bridge. The new location is one of several new investments that will be made by WCMRC. Trans Mountain, of course, is a member. Shippers are members of WCMRC. That investment in total, I believe, is somewhere in the order of $150 million. In terms of human resources, it's my understanding that the complement of folks involved in that response activity will go from about 30 full-time employees today to about 130 to 150 when fully operationalized. That was one of the proposals that was submitted to the National Energy Board. As Trans Mountain made their application for approval, it was incorporated in the conditions of the project and is now proceeding. That construction is under way today.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Do you think this is adequate or enough for the port? Is the port reassured by this kind of investment and plan? I mean, we referenced other spills. I know the Marathassa spill that happened a number of years ago in Burrard Inlet was a smaller spill, but it pointed out a number of problems that departments had in terms of coordination, including with WCMRC.

5:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

Certainly we're pleased to see the additional investment in equipment occurring within the transit route. As I've said, it's very close to the Trans Mountain facility. A number of other steps have been taken with regard to the protocols of engagement with WCMRC by the port authority directly to ensure that the response time, if there ever is another incident, is as brief as possible. I'm satisfied that we've taken corrective action, learning from that minor incident that occurred a number of years ago.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much. Your time is up.

We go on to Mr. Fraser.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to each of our witnesses for being here today.

I'm going to start with our guests from the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority.

One of the topics during your opening remarks was the impact that we should be mindful of when it comes to supply chains and the pressure that you can put on one facility if circumstances change at another.

Has there been any assessment done as to the kind of demand that this moratorium or the potential construction of the Kinder Morgan pipeline is going to put on your port authority? Are you prepared to deal with that increased demand?

5:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

Of course our primary focus has been looking at the increased vessel traffic that would ensue from that project. I'm confident that we've taken appropriate steps to incorporate that volume. From a total traffic perspective, I mentioned it's a fairly modest increase in total traffic. While the south coast of British Columbia has a significantly greater traffic than the north coast from a marine perspective, it is relatively uncongested from a marine perspective. The challenges that we have are urban encroachment and rail and road, and we have more challenges from that perspective.

This particular commodity arriving by pipeline and exiting by vessel is not a significant concern from an overall congestion perspective. The comments I made previously have to do with emerging opportunities in the future if they were solely directed at the west coast and the Vancouver gateway in particular. It's difficult to speculate what that might mean in terms of total traffic in the future.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

To the point that was raised by our guests who were here in person, we don't want to find ourselves decades from now still captive to a single customer. I take it from your comments that with the approval of these projects, assuming that construction goes ahead, you're going to be able to deliver products to customers around the world.

5:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

That is certainly the intention. I mentioned that our mandate as a port authority, as is Prince Rupert's, is to enable trade. We're taking steps necessary to make sure that we can do that safely while protecting the environment.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I'll move to our guests from Prince Rupert.

I'm curious about this threshold of 12,500 tonnes. We heard testimony and a recommendation previously that we knock that figure down substantially. I forget the precise figure. It was 3,200, 3,600, or something to that effect. The reasoning was based on the fact that this is the volume being transported on vessels now.

You made a comment about 12,500 tonnes making marine fuelling economical. Could you perhaps elaborate on whether this in fact is a good number? Are there dangers if we move down to that 3,000-odd tonne figure?

5:05 p.m.

Director, Public Affairs, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Ken Veldman

The conversation about lower volumes has been focused on resupply to communities on the coast and has been largely driven by barge capacities within that context. I think the important thing to realize about the number is that it's not just community resupply that should be included in that conversation, but there are other examples, such as the one I used of a port service that requires the storage of marine bunkers on barge within the harbour, and that requires a higher number.

The reality is that the number of 12,500 is somewhat arbitrary. While the project that we're dealing with has used that as a number to move forward, in the future there may be other examples that are similar to that, and then it becomes a negative hindrance to a potential business plan and a vital service.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I have two minutes remaining, so I'll ask one final question.

With respect to the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, you mentioned a handful of the features outlined in the oceans protection plan about spill response. Are there other things that we should be pursuing within the context of the oceans protection plan, or other spill response initiatives that we could or should be taking on to ensure that we are sufficiently protected? Are you confident that the measures included in the plan that we're aware of today are going to give Canadians the tools they need to ensure that they're able to transport products in an environmentally responsible way?

5:10 p.m.

Vice-President, Planning and Operations, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority

Peter Xotta

From our perspective, the oceans protection plan encompasses many of the elements of the tanker panel's recommendations. What I perhaps didn't say—which was mentioned by some of the previous presenters—is that area-based risk assessments and planning are things that make a lot of sense, using empirical data to identify areas of increased risk—or decreased risk, if that's the case—and adjusting the plans for spill response to reflect those new or diminished risks. That would certainly be something that was recommended in the tanker panel safety report and that this port strongly supports as a basis for future policy decisions and dialogue.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Badawey.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

You have to excuse me, folks. I'm a Great Lakes guy, so this is a bit new to me. I'm going to ask some questions to get a bit educated on this situation. I'll start off by asking questions of the folks from Royal Vopak.

What is the percentage of cargo that you're bringing into the country?