Transport Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2017

[Bernadette Conant]

To your first question, it's very similar to what I'm working on, which is a national expert panel on waste water and the concerns with that. It's not that there's any significant scientific dissent on the toxicity, but just the fact that we are facing such a large number of things that are problematic. How problematic is it? Should this be the first thing we act on, and should this be where we spend our money? That's the question facing people in the water space.

I don't think it's like deciding whether or not there's climate change; I think people realize it's a problem. There's been a great increase in the recognition. The science was there, but now there's the general recognition of the significance in the water space, so the community is at the point now of deciding whether or not this is the thing that it needs to move on. I think because there's a recognition and because children are involved in it, people recognize we have to do something about it. For me, the question is more about what we can do; we can either be thrown off or move forward.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

Ms. Grenier, you have the floor for a moment.

[Michele Grenier]

In my opinion, a study is needed in order to determine whether municipalities can achieve the new maximum concentration strictly by controlling corrosion or replacing service lines. To achieve that level, should it be recommended that members of the public purchase a filter?

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That leads to my next question.

As I understand it, even if all the pipes were changed, the problem will not be eliminated unless we went all the way to the owner's tap.

[Michele Grenier]

That's right.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

We might have eliminated part of the problem, but the problem will persist. It is really a question of coordinating services. How can members of the public be convinced of their moral duty to do their fair share, even if that means providing financial support, of course?

Can we make a correlation between lead and mercury, for instance? As everyone knows, every particle of mercury that we ingest by eating fish, for example, accumulates and our system cannot eliminate it.

Can the same thing be said for lead as well?

[Michele Grenier]

Yes, that is right.

According to the Health Canada proposal published in the spring, if we reduce the maximum concentration from 10 to 5 micrograms per litre, 7% of the population would be under the limit in terms of blood levels.

So it is the same, especially once the other sources of lead in our environment have been eliminated. One of the main sources right now is in fact drinking water.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

If I understand Ms. Conant correctly, whether it is 10 or 5 parts per million, it does not make a huge difference. So I assume that the standard to be achieved is as close to zero as possible.

According to a study mentioned in a Radio-Canada article, the first sample collected at a school was well above the standard. If the water was left to run for five, 10 or 15 minutes, however, it was okay. Letting the water run is like wasting the hundreds of millions of dollars we invested to purify it.

In my opinion, we have to look at the big picture. There is much to be gained by ensuring that the plan implemented will almost require action from members of the public, or offer an incentive so obvious that it would be unavoidable. Otherwise we are missing the mark.

Did I understand correctly?

[Bernadette Conant]

Yes, that is absolutely right.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Aubin.

Go ahead, Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to start with Bernadette.

You said that this is quite widespread in Canada but that you didn't have a number associated with it. Can you compare the amount of lead we have in Canadian pipes with how prolific it is in other countries similar to ours?

[Bernadette Conant]

I think the closest we can get is to use, as I said jokingly, the tenfold number, because the nature and the timing are similar to what is happening in the U.S. It depends whether you're asking how we benchmark against other countries or whether we can use what other countries are doing as the best estimate. I think we feel that using the situation in the U.S. as an indication is probably a good benchmark to think about. If you take the timing into consideration, it's similar. We don't have a number, but we do know from cities that they have this problem. We know it's a significant problem. We know in percentages that it's not a small problem in that sense.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

From the point of view of the government, how do we get these pipes out of people's houses?

[Bernadette Conant]

I think other witnesses will have some discussion about it. On any of these things, there's a slew of pieces. My personal opinion—it's not really research—is that it's not all about moral obligation. There are a lot of things that we don't allow in homes that are required on property transfer—

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'm sorry to cut you off and move on, but I'm going to share my time.

I have a quick question, though: do you deem this to be a public health risk?

[Bernadette Conant]

I'm sorry?

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Yes or no—do you deem this to be a public health risk?

[Bernadette Conant]

Yes.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Michèle, I'm going to ask you a few quick questions before I finish up with my time. You said that you provide 50% of the water in Canada?

[Michèle Grenier]

No, our member utilities do.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Your members do. How often do they test their water?

[Michèle Grenier]

It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, based on provincial regulations, but essentially in Ontario there is monitoring continuously, 24 hours a day around the clock, at the treatment plants, and in the distribution system it's essentially daily.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

The reason I asked Bernadette whether it's deemed a public health risk is that the guidelines, under annex C, talk about what's eligible, so there's the public, and then what constitutes private but is for the public good. Would you also consider this for the public good?

[Michèle Grenier]

Yes.